Shenanigans with the Family subdomain

[Covert Operator]

Community (Family) subdomain wrote:

Binding Ties (Su): As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Immediate non-shenanigans that come to mind, and were probably RAI:

• Sharing the poison between yourselves.
• Giving temporary respite from a curse.

However, this ability becomes much more fun when you have a friend or an enemy who's been hit with a spell like Charm Person or Unwitting Ally who has a beneficial condition.

• touch Your buffs are mine now!
• touch No more Vampirism for you. It's all mine!
• You could get paid to remove someone's senility temporarily so that they can communicate with their family/friends.

What can you guys think of today?

[Goddity]

I can remove death!
1st level revival for the win!

[Goddity]

We are counting silly/rulebreaking aren't we?

"Oh how sad, you appear to have Dragon Disease, which as everyone knows turns an ordinary human into a dragon. MINE"

[Goddity]

Or maybe i could transfer godhood. Thats a condition right?

[StabbittyDoom]

"Condition" != "Effect". Conditions are things like poisoned, diseased, paralyzed, and stunned. They're rarely good. Things like vampirism or buffs are "effects", but not conditions, so you can't transfer them.

Here's the conditions list: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions

Curiously, incorporeal *is* on the list, which has interesting potential ramifications. Sadly, you can't take the "dead" condition because a corpse is not an ally, even if it used to be. You *could* take the dying condition, which I suppose would cause you to lose a bunch of HP and start bleeding to death.

[Goddity]

Darn

I thought we were being silly. Incorporeal could be fun. I thought i was on to something with dragon disease.

[Goddity]

What if i play a cleric to a good god of death? Then can i steal his death? That would be awesome. The thief of death. Also have the full list cuz i don't want more than one tab open.

Antagonized[3PP]
Bleed
Blinded
Broken
Confused
Cowering
Dazed
Dazzled
Dead
Deafened
Disabled
Dying
Energy Drained
Entangled
Exhausted
Fascinated
Fatigued
Flat-Footed
Frightened
Grappled
Helpless
Incorporeal
Invisible
Nauseated
Panicked
Paralyzed
Petrified
Pinned
Prone
Shaken
Sickened
Sinking
Stable
Staggered
Stunned
Unconscious

[DominusMegadeus]

You are your own ally.

The target is immune to the condition for the duration.

You take the condition from yourself and become immune to it.

[Covert Operator]

OMG Dominus that is amazing.
Try using it on a guy whose tied up (I think I punctuated "who's" right), so you'll have your arms pinned to your side and he gets full range of movement while the ability is in effect.

From the list, here are the silly ones:

• Grappled/Pinned
• Incorporeal
• Invisible
• Flat-Footed
• Unconscious
• Helpless
• Paral yzed
• Petrified
• Prone
• Sinking
• Dying

[Covert Operator]

ahahahahah it put a space in the middle of "Paral yzed" because the formatting of lists is all on one line, so it thought that my single line was so long it must be a URL that I'm not using properly.

[Goddity]

We need to build a thief of statuses now.
If you steal a grapple then do you swap places?

If we can up the range you could grapple your ally to get teleportation. Can you apply metamagic to domain skills?

My fighter can do the same thing with prone though. I grab them, yank them to their feet and then lie on the ground.

[Covert Operator]

StabbittyDoom wrote:

Sadly, you can't take the "dead" condition because a corpse is not an ally, even if it used to be. You *could* take the dying condition, which I suppose would cause you to lose a bunch of HP and start bleeding to death.

The Dying condition doesn't explicitly cause you to lose HP, it is just a condition that is only gained when you are below 0 HP. Just like how the Grappled condition cannot normally be gained unless someone succeeds at a grapple CMB against you or you do the same to a foe.

There is one way you could take the dead condition:
Intelligent Undead gain the Dead condition upon death. When they are raised as a vampire/whatever, they do not lose that condition. They just gain the Undead subtype and being Dead doesn't matter. Intelligent Undead could be reasoned with, so you could get them to count themselves as your ally, and use this ability on their "Dead" condition. Now that would be a weird scenario for the GM to adjudicate, both for you and for your Undead partner in crime.

[Goddity]

Does that mean i can't grapple teleport?

[Covert Operator]

Using the Binding Ties ability on a Grappled/Pinned ally would make you Grappled (the condition) but not grappled (a successful target of the Grapple maneuver).
Your ally remains grappled by the opponent, but you are the one who is Grappled.

[Goddity]

Someone steal my confused condition over the grapple rules.

[magispitt]

Goddity wrote:

Someone steal my confused condition over the grapple rules.

Consider it stolen, I am now confused about the grapple rules

[Goddity]

okay good. I live to spread confusion.

[bbangerter]

Covert Operator wrote:

However, this ability becomes much more fun when you have a friend or an enemy who's been hit with a spell like Charm Person or Unwitting Ally who has a beneficial condition.

• touch Your buffs are mine now!
• touch No more Vampirism for you. It's all mine!
• You could get paid to remove someone's senility temporarily so that they can communicate with their family/friends.

What can you guys think of today?

Unwitting ally only applies for determining a flanking condition. They are not your ally for any other purpose, including the domain power.

[bbangerter]

DominusMegadeus wrote:

You are your own ally.

The target is immune to the condition for the duration.

You take the condition from yourself and become immune to it.

FAQ wrote:

Ally: Do you count as your own ally?

You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."

In this context, being your own ally makes no sense. The clear intent is to remove a condition from another character, not your own.

[Covert Operator]

Here are some Grapple flowcharts: #1 and #2
To sum up, the Grappled condition is gained by somebody succeeding at a grapple combat maneuver check, and it lasts one round. They can choose to maintain the grapple, which forces you to take the Grappled condition for another round.
Your ally now uses Binding Ties on you, and you become immune the Grappled condition. You still aren't immune to the grapple combat maneuver, you are just immune to the Grappled condition which is imposed by a successful grapple check.

[Covert Operator]

Goddity wrote:

We need to build a thief of statuses now.

If you steal a grapple then do you swap places?

If we can up the range you could grapple your ally to get teleportation. Can you apply metamagic to domain skills?

My fighter can do the same thing with prone though. I grab them, yank them to their feet and then lie on the ground.

I was actually asking the question for my Varisian Pilgrim character.

[wraithstrike]

Covert Operator wrote:

Community (Family) subdomain wrote:

Binding Ties (Su): As a standard action, you can touch an ally and remove one condition affecting the ally by transferring it to yourself. This transfer lasts a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, but you can end it as a free action on your turn. At the end of this effect, the condition reverts to the original creature, unless it has ended or is removed by another effect. While this power is in use, the target is immune to the transferred condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Immediate non-shenanigans that come to mind, and were probably RAI:

• Sharing the poison between yourselves.
• Giving temporary respite from a curse.

However, this ability becomes much more fun when you have a friend or an enemy who's been hit with a spell like Charm Person or Unwitting Ally who has a beneficial condition.

• touch Your buffs are mine now!
• touch No more Vampirism for you. It's all mine!
• You could get paid to remove someone's senility temporarily so that they can communicate with their family/friends.

What can you guys think of today?

Not all buffs are conditions. I really cant think of any that are conditions. Vampirism is not a condition, not per the rules anyway. Condidtions are listed in the glossary, and those are the only conditions I would let someone transfer. Death and dying are both conditions, but I don't think it was intended to be used on those two per RAI. I may or may not allow it depending on the specific campaign.

[wraithstrike]

Covert Operator wrote:

There is one way you could take the dead condition:
Intelligent Undead gain the Dead condition upon death. When they are raised as a vampire/whatever, they do not lose that condition. They just gain the Undead subtype and being Dead doesn't matter. Intelligent Undead could be reasoned with, so you could get them to count themselves as your ally, and use this ability on their "Dead" condition. Now that would be a weird scenario for the GM to adjudicate, both for you and for your Undead partner in crime.

Do you have a rules quote for this?

If I put a curse on you that takes you directly from living to vampire how does it make you "dead"?

[Goddity]

I can't tell if we are being serious anymore. Most GMs i know would just say no to the whole thing.

[avr]

Could be fun. Remember to get a conductive whip for maximum confusion about who's grappled etc.

[Mikaela Delshandra]

"Next person to say shenanigans gets pistol-whipped!!!"

[Just a Guess]

How would that work with cursed items? Ones that have to be worn specifically?
You remove the curse from your ally wearing the cursed item. Now he/she can take it off because he is not longer cursed. Would you put it on because you are now cursed? Or would the curse have no effect on you as you are not wearing the thing?

And how about prone? You use the power and suddenly the ally is standing and you are prone. Does this change provoke AoOs? And what happens with the one now immune to being prone raises both legs off the ground? What is both, the user and the ally are prone to begin with? Will the ally become non-prone and, some turns later you become non prone?

What happens if your ally is an animated object with the broken condition and you, being a humanoid take that condition? Can a humanoid be broken?

[Covert Operator]

Yeah, the ability is very ridiculous.
When you remove prone from your ally and transfer it to yourself, your ally doesn't provoke because he did not use the 'stand up' action. Your ally now has full range of movement as normal, and you are prone. Once the effect wears off, your ally becomes prone again and you aren't anymore.
Yes, this ability allows a Humanoid to gain the Broken condition.

[Covert Operator]

wraithstrike wrote:

Covert Operator wrote:

There is one way you could take the dead condition:
Intelligent Undead gain the Dead condition upon death. When they are raised as a vampire/whatever, they do not lose that condition. They just gain the Undead subtype and being Dead doesn't matter. Intelligent Undead could be reasoned with, so you could get them to count themselves as your ally, and use this ability on their "Dead" condition. Now that would be a weird scenario for the GM to adjudicate, both for you and for your Undead partner in crime.

Do you have a rules quote for this?

If I put a curse on you that takes you directly from living to vampire how does it make you "dead"?

If you did go directly from Living to Undead without dying in between, then you wouldn't have the Dead condition; but pretty much every Undead-creating effect creates the undead out of a corpse. The Animate Dead spell doesn't say anything about losing the Dead condition, so that's a rule quote.

Remember that all Dead does is (1) Your soul leaves your body, and (2) Prevent you from being healed by magical healing. The dead entry also has a few clauses about the practical effects of being Dead, and the first paragraph states under what circumstances you become Dead.
Undead being Dead is coherent with this rule, because Undead can't be healed by positive energy, in fact they are actually healed by negative.
Unfortunately there is no rules on what happens when you are both Dead and have a positive number of Hit Points. The Dead condition doesn't actually prohibit being conscious, walking around, attacking, etc. so technically you'd be a living creature (or an Undead creature, depends) that can't be healed by magical healing.

[Goddity]

So we have found a new major hole in grapple rules, decided undeath rules don't explain death enough, and we can get conditions in places they shouldn't be.

If i become dead and lose my soul (temporarily) would i be immune to soul effecting magic? because that could be quite useful. But of course the real question is what happens to the zombie/skeleton/ghoul/lich/whatever? It becomes living, dies, and then goes back to being undead when your cleric level is up? What if i rip the bodies while they are dead?

I love these message boards.

[Covert Operator]

Well, transferring the Dead condition is more for free revives.

[Covert Operator]

Well, only 'free' if your GM counts former ally's bodies as still your ally.
It's still good; you can revive as a zombie for 25 gp/HD and no negative levels, instead of 5000 gp and 2 negative levels.

[arcanine]

Yeah we had a android with this domain. He would accept our conditions. But since he was immune to them they had no effect. We steam rolled the fights.

[Avoron]

Hmmm...there's some precedent for dead creatures being allies; if they can't, the Monk of the Healing Hand's True Sacrifice ability is a joke.

[ryric]

Hmm, this does have all sorts of interesting uses, not all silly:
If your party has multiple energy drained members you could pile all the negative levels on yourself and cure them with one restoration.

If you had a petrified ally you couldn't move on your own you could use this to very slowly get back to civilization.

For some of the weirder ones you could always summon a monster, give it the condition, then steal it.

Animate a rowboat, give it the sinking condition, then steal that? Not even sure what that would do...

[Covert Operator]

OK, so revives are free. Great!
Transferring Unconsciousness is also very awesome. Apply those salts that wake you up to yourself at the same time as you are transferring Unconsciousness, or put them in the ally's hand as you transfer, then they get up and apply the salts to you

[wraithstrike]

Threads like this are why I visit the boards. They let me know about certain loopholes before I have to deal with them.