Goblin Squad Member
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Obviously I am not using "Opportunity" for this thread since that state is so common (and possibly long lasting) and so many attacks capitalize on it that it is a no-brainer.
I want to discuss a much more elusive(or short-lived) state, namely Dazed.
Some numbers:
2 Weapon attacks apply this (or a chance thereto);
7 Weapon attacks capitalize on the state by applying another condition; not all of them by the same weapon as the ones that applied the state.
5 Cantrips apply this(or a chance thereto);
No cantrips capitalize on the state.
1 Orison applies this;
1 Orison capitalizes on it.
6 Trophy Charm Expendables apply this (or a chance thereto);
None of them capitalizes on it.
0 Rogue Kit Expendables apply it;
1 capitalizes on it.
10 Spellbook Expendables apply this(or a chance thereto), 3 of which need another conditions first (being disrupted);
1 Expendable capitalizes on it.
2 Holy Symbol Expendables apply this, one of them needing Disrupted first;
0 capitalize on it.
Rather then argue about it, I would like to pose a serie of questions;
- Are people able to recognize when a target is dazed? It should show the Tan chevron as per Dazyks ref-sheet. But there are more conditions that show a Tan Chevron.
- Do you use Daze---> apply condition combo's your self(solo)? There are a few combo's that use the same weapon for instance and can be done by a single person.
- Do you ever capitalize on the Dazed state that someone else applied?
Often the state is applied by a ranged attack, but can be capitalized on by a melee attack. - Do you feel that the duration of the Dazed state (pretty much always one round) is workable to capitalize on it, when someone else applied it?
- And when you yourself applied it and you follow up yourself?
- Do you rather feel that you just should fire off your favorite attacks and maybe sometimes they will happen to capitalize on a state, or do you think that States could and should be used in a pre-meditated group-effort as to get max efficiency out of combat? Keep in mind that most skills only give a *chance* on applying the state, often as low as a 25% chance. Also keep in mind that most attacks that actually apply the state are usually low-damage skills so probably not your favorite.
- Does your group for instance decide to use a series of slotted skills/feats that make applying this state and capitalizing on it much more frequent?
- Do you feel that the skills that capitalize on the state Dazed actuallly *do* enough to go through the hassle of spotting the state and then acting upon the State? Stuns are often applied which are nice, but 10 Oblivious?
- If so, which combo's do you use and/or could recommend. Both solo, and in group?
- Do you feel that there are more states and supposed synergies that seem to be unworkable for truly tactical purposes, due to short durations, low chance of application, low effect when capitalized on, and too little UI feedback on which debuffs are currently running on a Target?
- Is there anything I am missing? :) (very likely)
This is just about Dazed but there are more that I am wondering about.
I would love to hear about combo's or tactics that you guys use, that go beyond "all DPS on one target" and "use Exploit when Opportunity".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are people able to recognize when a target is dazed?Yes. Dazed puts an icon on your target that looks like a silhouetted head with stars or something floating around it, if I recall correctly.
Personally I wish icons conveying a buff and/or debuff were bigger and displayed at the top of the screen. I don't like them being so bunched together inside the relatively small healthbar area.
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I think states are made for us to capitalize on. I want to be able to clearly distinguish when someone is, say, Unbalanced, so I can have time to react with a corresponding attack.
I haven't been playing long enough to really know if the current state of things is satisfactory, but those are my parameters. It doesn't need to be easy, but I want to be able to learn to do it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are people able to recognize when a target is dazed?Yes. Dazed puts an icon on your target that looks like a silhouetted head with stars or something floating around it, if I recall correctly.
Ah yes, I have seen that one. Good to know, this certainly makes it easier to do *something* with it. I would like to leave the question up, since the fact remains if people actually *spot* that icon.
I think we need a target window and not having to strain our eyes to see what's on a mob 35 yards away.
Do we have a document somewhere with these icons? Dazyks ref-sheet only has the 4 HUD icons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think states are made for us to capitalize on. I want to be able to clearly distinguish when someone is, say, Unbalanced, so I can have time to react with a corresponding attack.
I haven't been playing long enough to really know if the current state of things is satisfactory, but those are my parameters. It doesn't need to be easy, but I want to be able to learn to do it.
My biggest problem with them, is that they seem to be made to be applied by one person (Wizards have a lot of attacks that apply the state, or at least a small chance) and then get capitalized on by others, yet the duration of the state is just too short for that. Especially if you are a melee and maybe have to run to the target.
Also not sure how useful it is to really act upon it, if you could be doing DPS instead. This has always been a big conundrum in MMO's. Doing concentrated DPS is always a *great* way to do crowdcontrol: one mob less to worry about.
Most attacks that capitalize on Dazed do give a 2-second stun. A stun can be usefull in certain situations. Not sure if it is usefull enough to go through the hassle of creating a *chance* to get a stun off though.
There could be the argument that durations will become longer when you level up: however I think a system that is unusable during an entire Tier is a bit of a waste.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A Wizard has two cantrips that seem fit for that:
Cacophony Sonic Damage, Burst to Self, Dazed (1 Round, 75% chance)
Jarring Mesmerism Psychic Damage, Short Blast, Dazed (1 Round, 75% chance) to All
The fact that the Shortbow is a ranged attack should diminish the problems of having to close in on your target first, before that round is up. So possibly viable.
Big question is: do groups use this tactic? Is it powerful? Is it workable? Is it better then just spamming DPS?
The other 6 weapon attacks that capitalize on Dazed, are all melee. That means these players would have to close in on the targets that the Wizard has Dazed. Within 5 seconds. So much less viable, it seems.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Hmmm, there are three cantrips that capitalize on Dazed, but none of them are available right now since they use effects that don't work yet. Problem is that Dazed capitalization really points to mental controls, like Charm, Confusion, and Nausea. But I think I'm going to go ahead and turn on Spell Suppression for EE4 by replacing the Suppressed effect that doesn't work until it does. Can't really turn on Nauseating Ray without Nausea or Bewitch without Charm, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you, Guurzak. :)
Yes, I know how to line up the attacks to capitalize on Dazed from Nihimons spreadsheets too, but are you actually using these tactics in the game itself, to your benefit?
The theory is simple, and laid out in the spreadsheets: there are attacks that apply Dazed (or a chance) and then you can follow up with an attack that then applies a condition.
The reality is, do people purposefully manage to apply these 5-second states and capitalize on it, solo or in a group, to any *useful* effect or strategy?
Do groups that clear purple escalations use these States, and their synergy with other attacks, to *better* clear these escalations?
Have these states been purposefully used in small-scale or large-scale PvP? I know we haven't seen much of that yet, but that does not mean we can not question the viability of things.
It is obvious that I personally find the durations too short to work with, and the effects , if you manage to pull one off, too weak to bother. This is from my simple solo-PvE point of view so that is why I made this thread.
I could have started the thread with: "durations too short, weak effects, enhance please". But I would rather hear from groups if they are actually using this to an effect already.
Again, this thread is about Dazed, but if anyone wants to share a synergy with another state that he is using to good effect, then by all means. Not Opportunity though, we all know about that one!
Also, after Stephen asked us to try out those Lesser Tokens, how did that work out? Are you still using them?
If so, I would love to know which ones, and how.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hmmm, there are three cantrips that capitalize on Dazed, but none of them are available right now since they use effects that don't work yet. Problem is that Dazed capitalization really points to mental controls, like Charm, Confusion, and Nausea. But I think I'm going to go ahead and turn on Spell Suppression for EE4 by replacing the Suppressed effect that doesn't work until it does. Can't really turn on Nauseating Ray without Nausea or Bewitch without Charm, though.
What I understand from that is that more powerful effects are going to capitalize on Dazed in the future: however my gripe is mostly about the short duration of Dazed. Apart from the current effects, do you feel that people can react fast enough to capitalize on the state, in just a single round?
Also, as to the usefulness of the effects: Charm and Confusion sound pretty powerful (I know there is a CF thread somewhere about them), but do you feel that the current effects of a "capitalized-on" Dazed are worth the hassle? A 2 second stun(most common effect) can be nice in certain situations but not sure if it is useful when you need to effectuate it in two steps, the first of which is often dependant on the Random Number Generator (25% chance to apply Dazed).
A stun seems to be more of an instant "must work here and now" skill.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So my current combo set is based around Dual Wielding Longsword and Shortsword. I'm primarily using Understrike to proc Distressed then using Compound to apply bleed. I also have Press for Opportunity and Stop Cut for dazed (someone I was running with could apply daze regularly) on Shortsword. My other Longsword moves are Slash (just damage) and Guard (defensive). I'm utilizing Opportunist Rogue feature with one of the MoO (chance to apply flat-footed) reactives and the sneak attack reactive that applies bleed. This usually results in flat-footed be applied fairly often as I move through a group of mobs.
On weaker white mobs it's not particularly noticeable as the raw damage from my primary combo is enough to 2 shot most mobs, but on some of the tougher yellows (like Louts) or easier reds I can go toe to toe without too much hassle.
Should also mention I'm using Crusader Armor feat (Cleric Heavy Armor with heavy and light weapon bonuses).
Yea my build is all over the place role wise but it seems to be working fairly well, and it's fun. Little more anti-paladin than rogue. I might look into swapping around my offhand based on what states I can take advantage of, especially if I need to spend some XP to raise stats that are gating me. My only real annoyance is that Wisdom seems kinda hard to come by if you are completely ignoring Cleric spells.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So my current combo set is based around Dual Wielding Longsword and Shortsword. I'm primarily using Understrike to proc Distressed then using Compound to apply bleed. I also have Press for Opportunity and Stop Cut for dazed (someone I was running with could apply daze regularly) on Shortsword. My other Longsword moves are Slash (just damage) and Guard (defensive). I'm utilizing Opportunist Rogue feature with one of the MoO (chance to apply flat-footed) reactives and the sneak attack reactive that applies bleed. This usually results in flat-footed be applied fairly often as I move through a group of mobs.
Thanks a lot, Duffy, that was interesting. About the bolded part: looks like you had something synergistic going with your partner, that sounds good. It seems that you two managed to get the combo "Dazed + Shortsword" attack working: did this make the fights easier? I notice that Stop Cut does apply 10 Oblivious on a Dazed opponent: that is only -5 attack, if I am correct. Did this make a difference on tough mobs?
In any case, it seems that the two of you could at least work with the 5-second duration, by using the combo as you did. That is one thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tyncale
Are you open for contract work? I got mountains of Tier 1 and Tier 2 metals, minerals and gems Id trade in return for similar analysis of spear, axe, hammer, shield and longbow attacks/conditions/states/things the make the secondary attacks turn green.
PM me if interested. :)
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My biggest problem with them, is that they seem to be made to be applied by one person (Wizards have a lot of attacks that apply the state, or at least a small chance) and then get capitalized on by others, yet the duration of the state is just too short for that. Especially if you are a melee and maybe have to run to the target.I think states are made for us to capitalize on. I want to be able to clearly distinguish when someone is, say, Unbalanced, so I can have time to react with a corresponding attack.
I haven't been playing long enough to really know if the current state of things is satisfactory, but those are my parameters. It doesn't need to be easy, but I want to be able to learn to do it.
Isn't that where synchronization comes into play? "Okay, Tyncale, get ready to spring the anti-Unbalanced attack, I'm gonna use my causing-Unbalanced attack."
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Guurzak Pity that you won't share this with the rest. But I understand.
@ Giorgo. No way, I am already having a headache from this one. I am not an expert, on the contrary, I am just another bewildered newbie-veteran who is desperately trying to get a grasp on the mechanics, systems, keywords......
@ Kobold This will actually not work with a lot of the skills that apply Dazed, since a lot of them only have a 25% chance to apply it. So the RNG can easily mess up your plan. But it could work for the skills that give a 100% chance to apply a state.
Though even if you use the skills that give Dazed for sure, I still think 5 second durations are too short to work with in most situations. I am sure you can get a few combos off with good teamwork (using Teamspeak no doubt), but the effects are pretty weak too. As for the stuns, not sure how useful that is if you need to perform a succesful 2-step action in order to get one off.
Maybe it is not really meant for truly tactical use, and it's more a case of: while doing damage, you are applying States, and possibly others in your group get a chance to capitalize on it. So a few mages could constantly cast cantrips that apply Dazed and then the Melee are whacking everyone that they can get in melee distance to, hoping to stun a few people. Or apply -5 attack or some minor Affliction. Yeah, maybe it's that.
I wonder how many they would be able to get off succesfully in such a situation. And if the effects are strong enough to really make a difference in a fight. It seems people already have trouble targeting eachother, so you understand that I am dubious about this feature, especially considering the short-lived durations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I regularly use the Cleric Orison 1-2 combo with the one that applies dazed but does no damage (I forget the name), then spam Holy Lance for +10 damage until it wears off (usually 3 casts).
I was wondering about that one, considering the abysmal damage Clerics do at low levels. However Dazing Touch, the orison that applies 1 round of Dazed, requires Melee distance; since you are already in melee distance wouldn't it be more efficient to use Touch of Darkness? That has 3x the DPS of Holy Lance. The stamina cost is higher but it still seems you kill faster then having to spam Holy lance. But I could be wrong, I am curious which is the better dps.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Yes, the three applied states (Dazed, Distressed, and Unbalanced) are meant to be comboed between players. Most weapons can only really apply one, but can take advantage of at least two depending on which feats you buy. You're meant to synchronize between your party and figure one which players can combo together.
They currently provide a 1.5 divisor to the effects that are conditional on them (i.e., conditional effects using them will be 150% as potent as they would be if they did not require the state), and I generally try to pack as much of the value of Secondary attacks into the conditionals as possible. Which means if you're using secondaries when you don't activate their conditionals, you're wasting a pretty big chunk of Stamina, but when you DO match the conditional, that Stamina is being spent much more efficiently than when using a Primary.
I am curious whether people feel like these states are long enough. Keep in mind that making them longer makes it easier for you to capitalize, but also makes it easier for you to be capitalized upon.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I regularly use the Cleric Orison 1-2 combo with the one that applies dazed but does no damage (I forget the name), then spam Holy Lance for +10 damage until it wears off (usually 3 casts).I was wondering about that one, considering the abysmal damage Clerics do at low levels. However Dazing Touch, the orison that applies 1 round of Dazed, requires Melee distance; since you are already in melee distance wouldn't it be more efficient to use Touch of Darkness? That has 3x the DPS of Holy Lance. The stamina cost is higher but it still seems you kill faster then having to spam Holy lance. But I could be wrong, I am curious which is the better dps.
I use Dazing Touch + 2-3 Holy Lance to finish a monster when I am scraping the bottom of the barrel for Stamina and Touch of Darkness would be a waste.
Also, skeletons. Damn things are immune to ToD, so this is my main combo against them (and I fight them a lot, as the Risen are currently prevalent around Sunholm).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am curious whether people feel like these states are long enough. Keep in mind that making them longer makes it easier for you to capitalize, but also makes it easier for you to be capitalized upon.
When I was playing my Fighter, I found that it was virtually impossible to use an Attack while my target still had Opportunity after closing the distance to me. I realize Opportunity isn't one of the applied States you're talking about, but that's the only one that has felt "off" to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am curious whether people feel like these states are long enough. Keep in mind that making them longer makes it easier for you to capitalize, but also makes it easier for you to be capitalized upon.When I was playing my Fighter, I found that it was virtually impossible to use an Attack while my target still had Opportunity after closing the distance to me. I realize Opportunity isn't one of the applied States you're talking about, but that's the only one that has felt "off" to me.
The only time opportunity is presented to melee opponents is when casters or archers are firing while in melee range.
On the other hand for a ranged fighter there is almost no time when a ranged target does NOT present opportunity. They are generally shooting at you and present opportunity, running at you and present opportunity, or casting at you and present opportunity.
This makes the exploit and other opportunity attacks on a ranged weapon far more useful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder how many they would be able to get off succesfully in such a situation. And if the effects are strong enough to really make a difference in a fight. It seems people already have trouble targeting eachother, so you understand that I am dubious about this feature, especially considering the short-lived durations.
I think the answer to this is going to be different in PvE and PvP.
When we're fighting monsters, tab targeting sometimes follows a bewildering order that makes it tough to target a particular monster quickly enough to capitalize on a short-lived condition, but it can be done.
When we're fighting other players, tab targeting may or may not work at all (depending on who happens to have a red name at the moment), and click targeting is generally far too unreliable to count on targeting a particular PC within a few seconds. If Guurzak and company have figured out a solution to that, my hat's off to them.
If I had to attempt it, I'd probably borrow the EVE custom of calling a primary target over voice comms. "Everyone click target and try to get primary target X in your sights. All first strikers try to apply conditions to the primary now. All follow-up attackers launch capitalizing effects now."
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I'm using my short sword, Feint-Press-Basic Exploit is a combo I use all the time. Feint makes enemies flat-footed for one round 100% of the time, and it usually lasts long enough for me to complete one Press and one Exploit before it expires.
Edit: I know, we're supposed to be discussing Dazed, but this was an example where you can apply and capitalize on a condition solo.
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Golgotha has no secret to targeting specific players for focused fire.
I worry that should we ever get an assist command, that focused fire will be TOO effective. I'm not a big fan of alpha unless I'm immune. :-)
I don't think an "assist" command will be a thing. I think that'll get folded into formations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Golgotha has no secret to targeting specific players for focused fire.
I worry that should we ever get an assist command, that focused fire will be TOO effective. I'm not a big fan of alpha unless I'm immune. :-)
LOL ... lets create a doctrine where we all deploy zombies and then assign them to a single fleet company commander with good targeting skills who uses the zombies to alpha designated primary ...
... oh wait
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Players are way too fragile to withstand focused fire.
I sort of favor people being able to flee before they die, especially in situations where they might leave juicy husks.
Though it is becoming obvious, as more states get enabled, that we'll be seeing cc used for tackle and people standing around helpless to the onslaught.
Imagine your group of 6 armored fighters charge into a herd of 15 gatherers. The ones who first get tackled by a cc effect will get left behind by the fleeing herd and will be easy to focus fire on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Players are way too fragile to withstand focused fire.
I sort of favor people being able to flee before they die, especially in situations where they might leave juicy husks.
Though it is becoming obvious, as more states get enabled, that we'll be seeing cc used for tackle and people standing around helpless to the onslaught.
Imagine your group of 6 armored fighters charge into a herd of 15 gatherers. The ones who first get tackled by a cc effect will get left behind by the fleeing herd and will be easy to focus fire on.
And there's been some speculation from GW about providing new players with XP-inexpensive CC options, giving them a role similar to new players in tackle frigates in EVE.
"Two lightly armored newbie tacklers hit the herd ahead of the fighters. By the time the fighters reach melee range, a couple of CC'ed gatherers are already kissing their materials goodbye."
I think this scenario really only applies after gushers arrive, though. Right now 15 gatherers would be stepping all over each other's toes, trying to gather from the same nodes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hmmm, there are three cantrips that capitalize on Dazed, but none of them are available right now since they use effects that don't work yet. Problem is that Dazed capitalization really points to mental controls, like Charm, Confusion, and Nausea. But I think I'm going to go ahead and turn on Spell Suppression for EE4 by replacing the Suppressed effect that doesn't work until it does. Can't really turn on Nauseating Ray without Nausea or Bewitch without Charm, though.
If there are going to be control spells like charm then I take back my complaints about arcane dps in the hopes that such spells are implemented. The pet AI involved makes for interesting possibilities for rangers and summoning spells.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for chiming in Stephen. What I glean from the answers so far is that certain solo-combo's are workable with the current duration but that it is hard to capitalize on them when others apply the condition, exept in certain conditions. Like the situation where Duffy is taking on the mobs with melee-attacks that capitalize on Dazed, while his partner is constantly applying the Dazed state (I am thinking from ranged, but could also be from melee).
The biggest problem may be the combination "ranged application of the 5-second State, where the melee has to take advantage off".
Opportunity is something entirely different, because people can have that state on themselvess for much longer, so I am kinda hoping that one can stay out of the discussion here. It is also very clear that the the most used capitalization on Opportunity, namely the Exploit attacks, are currently very powerful (25-50 extra damage) so people feel it is worth the effort to capitalize on it.
I think this could be one of those questions in the crowdforging polls at the login-screen, if we get those. You would have to state the question very clearly and specific though; specifically ask if people capitalize on the "Dazed" or "Unbalanced" state, and not "Do you feel the duration of states are long enough in order to capitalize on them". Since people could be asnwering that from the Opportunity point of view, which would be a resounding yes from most everyone.
The part about secondary attacks having their big punch in their conditionals is interesting. I currently do not feel that their conditionals add a whole lot of extra to their primary effect, but there are a number of reasons for this.
First, inexperience.
Second, I am doing mostly PvE, and several of the conditionals are not working on PvE.
Third, the delay between what you are pushing on your keyboard, and what is eventually happening on the screen: I am not sure if this is desync or just stuff queuing up, or skills winding up their attack-animation, but I have a hard time applying any State when mobs are in melee range. I am getting stunned too off course. :) Applying a state from ranged is much easier, but then I feel the durations are so short, and the effects often weak (like Afflicted or Oblivious)
As to the getting stunned, I sometimes try to fight this by applying Freedom and Mindblank buffs on me(Utility), but again, they are so short that I can not really work with them.
So basically the only thing that I am doing when mobs have closed in on me, is pushing damage-attacks, hoping I kill the mob before they kill me, or get an Augment or Lesser Cure in-between. That often works.
But this is from a solo-point of view, and not the best player when it comes to combat, so other peoples mileage may vary. This is why I am so interested in experiences from groups. And from the PvP point of view. I am sure stuns have a much bigger effect on players then they do on NPC's. Effect as in, "turning the fight".
@ Karlbob Thanks, tactics like that clarify a lot. I do not run tino stamina problems often but it is definately something that you have to learn to work with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I put a post in the Rogue Tips on the GW forums about using states. This isn't primarily about Dazed, but states in general.
As a rogue, it is something I would like to use more. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to apply most of the states that I can capitalise on, so it makes it difficult. Dazed is not the best example, as (as far as I am aware) stuns/slows and other movement conditions do not appear to be working in PvE, so I have no reason to even try to capitalise on it.
For other states - I use MoO:Slip to make my enemies flatfooted, then spam Quick Shot with my short bow (5 bleed) and my reactive is Bleeding Attack 2 (10 bleed), so stacking up 15 bleeds per shot. This works for now, but when Rogue stuff is fixed I shouldn't need the MoO and can slot another reactive, and when ammo comes in, spamming any bow attack is probably going to be expensive.
For Melee, I had been using the same combo as Karlbob - Feint-Press-basic exploit. However, I don't melee much. Since getting MoO:Slip and Bleeding Attack 2, I need to experiment whether it is better to get in 2 fast attacks (each with another 40% chance of applying Flatfooted) and stack up the bleeds rather than use the high stamina cost of Press. (I can't remember if there is a short sword/rapier attack that applies bleed, if there is, I should be using it.)
When in a duo or group with a mage, I use Distant Shot to apply Distressed and the Mage uses Killing Joke to apply a stun. We haven't quite come to an agreement yet as to whether the stun is working, but I am inclined to think that for this particular combo stun is working (which kind of disagrees with what I said above, so maybe stuns do work.)
The guys I play with are trying to work together on applying states. Being in a group and not trying to co-ordinate states, you are basically playing as a bunch of soloers all trying to kill the same mob. Working together to compliment is how a group should work, but it is a bit of a twitch-fest to spot the state and hit the right attack at the right time.
States are fleeting. I have a melee attack that takes advantage of Distressed, but since I can only apply Distressed with my Distant Shot, by the time I have swapped weapons and closed with the enemy, the state is finished.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I put a post in the Rogue Tips on the GW forums about using states. This isn't primarily about Dazed, but states in general.
As a rogue, it is something I would like to use more. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to apply most of the states that I can capitalise on, so it makes it difficult. Dazed is not the best example, as (as far as I am aware) stuns/slows and other movement conditions do not appear to be working in PvE, so I have no reason to even try to capitalise on it.
For other states - I use MoO:Slip to make my enemies flatfooted, then spam Quick Shot with my short bow (5 bleed) and my reactive is Bleeding Attack 2 (10 bleed), so stacking up 15 bleeds per shot. This works for now, but when Rogue stuff is fixed I shouldn't need the MoO and can slot another reactive, and when ammo comes in, spamming any bow attack is probably going to be expensive.
For Melee, I had been using the same combo as Karlbob - Feint-Press-basic exploit. However, I don't melee much. Since getting MoO:Slip and Bleeding Attack 2, I need to experiment whether it is better to get in 2 fast attacks (each with another 40% chance of applying Flatfooted) and stack up the bleeds rather than use the high stamina cost of Press. (I can't remember if there is a short sword/rapier attack that applies bleed, if there is, I should be using it.)
When in a duo or group with a mage, I use Distant Shot to apply Distressed and the Mage uses Killing Joke to apply a stun. We haven't quite come to an agreement yet as to whether the stun is working, but I am inclined to think that for this particular combo stun is working (which kind of disagrees with what I said above, so maybe stuns do work.)
The guys I play with are trying to work together on applying states. Being in a group and not trying to co-ordinate states, you are basically playing as a bunch of soloers all trying to kill the same mob. Working together to compliment is how a group should work, but it is a bit of a twitch-fest to spot the state and hit the right attack at the right time.
States are fleeting. I have a melee attack that takes advantage of Distressed, but since I can only apply Distressed with my Distant Shot, by the time I have swapped weapons and closed with the enemy, the state is finished.
This is extremely helpful, and I agree with you that being able to make use of States should and could be a big thing.
I bolded the parts where I think you hit on my biggest point, i.e. the short duration of States. Since Stephen asked what we think of the current duration, your post with examples from actual gameplay should be insightful.
Thanks a lot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that the short duration is to prevent a target from carrying all of the States for the entire combat if faced by a group, it forces you to keep going back to your primary attacks to put the State back on them.
Right now I'm not seeing them often enough though so I'm going to suggest a very slight increase in duration.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, I think 2 rounds instead of one already would make a huge difference. That would be around 9-10 seconds. Probably still not enough for a melee to run to a target that is at full ranged distance (up to 35 yards) but enough to spot the state, possibly switch weapons, a few seconds to close a small distance for melee, and off course the attack-animation.
Some attacks that capitalize on Dazed are off course Ranged(Deadly Aim, several Spells), and some come with Charge, so closing in could be fast(Passing Step Thrust, 2hSword). So that would leave a bit of time.
I think a longer duration would also give some room for a more tactical use, rather then having to twitch it every time you spot a target that is "in a state".
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I've spent too many marathon math sessions trying to work out the ideal cycle; I can't find the minimum number of players with main and off-hand weapons such that every character has a trigger that can be applied with the fewest people needing to apply it.
Also, since there is a cap to the stacking debuffs that is fairly easy to reach, large groups can't rely on using the same debuff on their alpha target; and crowd control is more effective when distributed than when focused, and several other deep theory issues that I've scratched but not yet identified.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Until today's patch, a lot of effects were ending prematurely. With this patch, an effect that's supposed to last one round won't last for two rounds, but it should last for one entire round, instead of ending early. This should make capitalizing on effects a little bit easier. (Not "easy", not "much easier", just a little bit easier.) We'll see how much it helps.