| Oddman80 |
If a human were to pay a high level wizard to "Polymorph Any Object" transform him into a Blood Lion (Same kingdom, class & intelligence level - yielding a permanent transformation), he end up with a permanent +6 size bonus to STR and Natural Armor, +2 size bonus to CON, +1 size bonus to CMB & CMD and a -2 size penalty to DEX.
Can that polymorphed human then put on a Hat of Disguise to appear as an average looking half-elf while maintaining the bonuses and abilities gained by the polymorph/beast shape IV spell (natural attacks, pounce, dark vision, fly 60(good), deafening roar, and bone spikes)?
The polymorph spell never changes the creature's type, so he is still a humanoid of the human subtype.
The hat uses disguise self, and therefore "You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype)"
| Claxon |
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form. In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses. If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell. Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature. When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size. While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form. You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell. If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
You can't be affected by both at the same time.
Edit disguise self is illusion only. SO what I said doesn't matter.
BRB.
| Claxon |
I would say that despite your type being unchanged, the hat of disguise is supposed to make one humanoid look like another type of humanoid.
Being shaped as a lion, I would let your appear as another type of four legged animal maybe. But not appear as a humanoid, that's beyond the intention of the magic. You also wouldn't be able to speak as a lion either.
I can't find what a blood lion is specifically, but assuming its just a variant lion what I said should hold.
Also, keep in mind as this lion you can't hold objects, can't manipulate spell components, can't speak. So you can't cast spell. Which, as a wizard, means you're not doing what you're meant to do.
| Oddman80 |
| Claxon |
Just so you're aware, that is a third party creature. You're group may be fine with that, but it is not a paizo creature. Just to give you a heads up in case you didn't notice.
Since it can speak, your monk could speak. But couldn't do anything that would require hands. So if it were cast on a spellcaster he would require eschew material components, and still spell to cast a spell as he cannot supply the hand movements or components required for spells. This however, is not as important if you're casting it on a non-caster.
For a monk, keep in mind he can't use flurry of blows with natural attacks, unless he has Feral Combat Training feat.
| Claxon |
From polymorph any object:
This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms- you aren't limited to transforming a living creature into another living form. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its transmuted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.
From greater polymorph:
This spell functions as polymorph except that it allows the creature to take on the form of a dragon or plant creature. If you use this spell to cause the target to take on the form of an animal or magical beast, it functions as beast shape IV. If the form is that of an elemental, the spell functions as elemental body III. If the form is that of a humanoid, the spell functions as alter self. If the form is that of a plant, the spell functions as plant shape II. If the form is that of a dragon, the spell functions as form of the dragon I. The subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell.
From beast shape 4:
Large magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Large magical beast, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.
| Oddman80 |
I hadn't realized it was 3rd party. .I thought all the 3rd party creatures had (3pp) in their name on d20pfsrd.
Whoops
The main point of the question remains the same, if he is transformed from human monk to large (talking) magical beast via PAO, and the tried looking like a half elf via a hat of disguise.... Would it work by RAW? Would he keep all of the applicable greater Polymorph bonuses and special abilities, while still looking to the naked eye like a half elf?
| boring7 |
By RAW...not really.
Your creature type is technically human, but since you are LARGE and on all fours your hat of disguise would, at best, make you look like a giant half-elf running around on all fours. From the spell description, "you can appear 1 foot shorter or taller".
Now you could claim you are under the effects of a permanent enlarge person, and that you are running around on all fours because of monk training or some such nonsense, but people are still going to be freaked out.
Most GMs would also rule that it just doesn't work, or that it only lets you look like other animals, for obvious reasons.
Either way, your monk is better off just having someone ride him into town, since a "tame" beast is less threatening. Good way to keep your cohort with you.
| Oddman80 |
Hmmmm.... Now that you mention it, a seemingly naked, enlarged, half elf running around on all fours like a strange circus freak is SO much better than what I had originally been thinking... Much more fitting for our party makeup as well (what with our party's hunter currently having a 10 footed Stag as an Animal Companion)
Thank you.
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I hadn't realized it was 3rd party. .I thought all the 3rd party creatures had (3pp) in their name on d20pfsrd.
I recommend never using that site, they do editorial changes to the actual printed text, they don't make it clear some things are 3rd party, they alter the names of things to cause confusion, and generally make it more difficult.
Stick with the actual books or Archive of Nethys.