Request for critique - PFS-legal SAD Mystic Theurge Enchanter


Advice

Grand Lodge

So this is a variant of the "Kitsune Enchanter with Impossibly High Enchantment DCs" build, but intended to be a bit less of a one trick pony when encountering things that aren't intelligent humanoids, and significantly faster and less squishy, at the cost of less impossibly high of DCs.

Kitsune Sorc (Crossblooded Serpentine/Undead) 4/Oracle (Dual Cursed?) 1/Mystic Theurge 7, to be taken as Sorc -> Oracle -> Sorc x3 -> Theurge

STR: 7 ( 5)
DEX: 7 ( 9)
CON: 13 (13)
INT: 14 (14)
WIS: 13 (13)
CHA: 18 (20)

Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge: Religion to 5 then Sense Motive, Spellcraft

Traits:
Reactive
Magical Knack: Oracle

Feats/Abilities:
1. Noble Scion of War (Initiative from CHA instead of DEX); Serpentine Bloodline: Mind-effecting spells work on animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids; Undead Bloodline: Mind-effecting spells work on corporeal humanoid-ish undead; irrelevant Sorc bloodline ability
2. Oracle Revelation: Lore -> Sidestep Secret (Reflex and AC from CHA instead of DEX)
3. Believer's Boon: Trickery (Copycat - 1/day Divine Mirror Image as SLA, counts toward second level Divine casting requirements)
5. Divine Protection (+CHA to all saves)
7, 9, 11: Some mix of Metamagic: Persistent and Enchantment DC boosters

By level 11, boosted CHA should be around 28. This would mean saves of Fort: 13, Ref: 21, Will: 17, Initiative of +11, and a 19 AC before equipment. Level 10 Sorc (5th) and Level 8 Oracle (4th) casting, using Pages of Spell Knowledge to make up for the Crossblooded lost spells. Enchantment would also have a +2 DC thanks to Kitsune abilities and favored class Sorc bonuses.

I am considering but have not settled on using Dual Cursed Oracle. It's a much lower cost compared to a Crossblooded Sorc (some of the curses don't hurt too badly), and Misfortune is a nifty trick to throw in to use up swift/immediate actions for a build that can't really afford to take Quicken.

Also debating whether it would be worth it to swap out one of the bloodlines with Impossible, which lets you apply mind effecting spells to constructs.

So my overall analysis vs the standard Kitsune Enchanter build:

Pro:
* Extreme SAD - converts most things to be CHA based
* Able to apply enchantment to a broader variety of common enemies
* Able to use some of the Cleric-list enchantments
* Lots of extra tricks when enchantment does not work
* Significantly improved survivability thanks to boosted Init and paladin-esque saves

Con:
* One level behind in arcane casting in a setup that's already behind a wizard
* Slow start; boosted saves won't kick in for a few levels
* General enchantment DCs 1 to 3 points lower depending on level
* Compulsion DCs another 2 points behind by choosing versatility bloodlines over using Fey for the compulsion boosts
* Feat-starved, resulting in few slots for metamagic feats


You know with the Serpentine and Impossible Bloodlines your enchantments will work on damn near anything isn't out right immune to them yes? Though I don't PFS so I make no promises those are legal.

Grand Lodge

Do those two types tend to have low will saves? I'm fairly new to Pathfinder (although I played 3.5), and have made a point of not reading the bestiaries to avoid spoilers, so I don't have much field experience. I guess the Oracle levels give some alternative punch against undead anyway, so Impossible is probably better than Undead for this build. Biggest problem with Impossible is that many of the creatures have SR, but there are a few Compulsions that bypass SR.


Divine Protection was banned in PFS last I read.

Pages of Spell Knowledge add up in cost surprisingly fast IME. Mnemonic Vestments can help, but you're still likely to have less versatility than you wish.

Grand Lodge

Ah, I missed that about Divine Protection. I guess at least that opens a feat slot early - either take DC boosts and metamagic earlier, or maybe throw in an Extra Revelation Lore Keeper and get CHA added to knowledge checks.


Hello Hock. Love the picture, by the way.
Its a good idea but one that can be improved I think.
My suggestions-

1 With physical stats like that you absolutely positively don't want to get into combat. Ever. I mean never ever under any circumstances, you die so fast you blink if you miss it.
I think it would be well worth it to take one [1, only one] level of Synthesist Summoner in order to make you less squishy. Of course you will still not exactly be Conan the barbarian, bit it will add a lot of survivability to your fox.

2 Your Stats-

STR: 7 ( 5)
DEX: 7 ( 9)
CON: 13 (13)
INT: 14 (14)
WIS: 13 (13)
CHA: 18 (20)

4 odd numbers seems... odd [boo-boom.] But having looked at the nos I can't make it better. Maybe take a point off Con and Wis and take your str up by 1 to a massive thewed 6. I would go for a 14 con rather than int, not past argument but I like my characters alive.

3 I don't know if the pathfinder society will allow you to do this, but you can get into the mystic theurge PC at level 3 with SLAs. Its obviously much better if you can.

4 My guess is you already intend to take the magical knack trait. Hell, take it twice if you can find a way.

Aside from this, its an excellent idea and one I may use myself. I want to play a kitsune.

Grand Lodge

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Hello Hock. Love the picture, by the way.

Its a good idea but one that can be improved I think.
My suggestions-

1 With physical stats like that you absolutely positively don't want to get into combat. Ever. I mean never ever under any circumstances, you die so fast you blink if you miss it.
I think it would be well worth it to take one [1, only one] level of Synthesist Summoner in order to make you less squishy. Of course you will still not exactly be Conan the barbarian, bit it will add a lot of survivability to your fox.

2 Your Stats-

STR: 7 ( 5)
DEX: 7 ( 9)
CON: 13 (13)
INT: 14 (14)
WIS: 13 (13)
CHA: 18 (20)

4 odd numbers seems... odd [boo-boom.] But having looked at the nos I can't make it better. Maybe take a point off Con and Wis and take your str up by 1 to a massive thewed 6. I would go for a 14 con rather than int, not past argument but I like my characters alive.

3 I don't know if the pathfinder society will allow you to do this, but you can get into the mystic theurge PC at level 3 with SLAs. Its obviously much better if you can.

4 My guess is you already intend to take the magical knack trait. Hell, take it twice if you can find a way.

Aside from this, its an excellent idea and one I may use myself. I want to play a kitsune.

Synthesist Summoner is not PFS Legal.


Quote:
3. Believer's Boon: Trickery (Copycat - 1/day Divine Mirror Image as SLA, counts toward second level Divine casting requirements)

Not sure if it's legal in PFS, and if it is right now, it might end up banned/erata'ed later.


Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Synthesist Summoner is not PFS Legal.

Well, you can do without and take a second lvl of oracle or sorcerer instead. It does mean that you have another caster lvl in one of your classes.

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