Cleric disguising as different faith?

[Quatar]

I'm almost sure I saw something like that a while ago.

A cleric disguising himself as a different faith. Using (or pretending to use) a holy symbol of that faith, etc.

[RumpinRufus]

Arcane casters can use the False Focus feat to appear to be divine.

But, I don't know of a way that allows a cleric to cast without using the proper divine focus.

[Malag]

I am kind of curious about this also. Would there be any repercussions for the given cleric?

[Dafydd]

With a combination of staffs, wands bluff checks and KN religion you could fake that you are a divine caster of another diety. However, if you needed to actually cast your spells, the jig would be up as the spell would fail without the proper divine focus.

Thus, you would want a Druid or Oracle or Shaman to be the pretender. They do not need to use a holy symbol for the focus.

[LibraryRPGamer]

The Factotum (3.5) could do this. The class was all about mimicking the abilities of other classes.

The False Priest sorcerer archetype in can do this too. But, that focuses on False Focus.

If your GM allows 3rd party material, there is the Savant class which are "ultra bards" in that they not only tell the stories of heroes, they re-live the lives of those heroes. The Savant is a class that mimics other classes - including casting divine spells.

[RumpinRufus]

Druids actually do need to use a divine focus.

Divine Focus wrote:

A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character's faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.

But you're right that an oracle could use a "dummy" holy symbol and pretend to be a cleric.

I don't see any rules that exempt shamans from having to use a divine focus, although it's also nowhere specified what that divine focus would actually be.

[Dafydd]

My post was they do not need to use a Holy symbol for the divine focus.

They still need a divine focus, so you would need to use the holly and attach it to the holy symbol you are pretending to use.

[Quatar]

I think it was the False Priest archetype that I had seen.

Yes, doesn't help me in my current situation, unfortunately. Might have to come up with something myself then.

Thanks though for the help

[LibraryRPGamer]

If this is a home game and your cleric worships Calistria, you could argue that using a divine focus of another deity falls within the trickery aspect of your god. I can see a cleric of Calistria using a holy symbol of another faith to do some act of revenge.

[Claxon]

I would say that you can successfully do this by having your holy smbol somehow incorporated into the design of the false holy symbol. It should cost extra, maybe 100 gp, not sure exactly. Somehow you subtlety incorporate your actual deity's symbol into the overall design or something. Probably have some sort of DC to detect it. Maybe DC 20 perception? DC could be increased based on cost, to represent more elaborate crafting to hide the symbol within the other symbol.

None of this is in the rules though, except to say you must have a holy symbol (of your deity). If you have a holy symbol of your deity, but disguised as another deity's symbol it should still function. There just aren't any rules for having a disguised holy symbol.

[Cuuniyevo]

If you want to be really tricky, you could get a Holy Symbol Tattoo on the palm of your hand, and a fake (temporary) tattoo of the faith you're impersonating on the back of your hand or top of your forearm. Hold your hand or arm up while casting, and face the fake symbol outwards so everyone thinks you're casting with the symbol they can see. If someone's standing next to you or behind you, just hold your hand a little closer to your body so they don't see your palm.

[Jason Wu]

You would definately need to be a cleric of a very understanding deity, probably one of the trickery or sneaky ones.

Otherwise you have some 'splainin to do.

-j

[Ughbash]

There is a trait, "birthmark" that gives you a birthmark that works as a holy symbol. With that you COULD possibly hold forth a holy symbol of another diety and cast your spell.

[LazarX]

Malag wrote:

I am kind of curious about this also. Would there be any repercussions for the given cleric?

Depends on the patron. A cleric of a god that's highly strict in matters of honor and honesty, had better have a VERY good reason for doing so, and may still need to atone later. The gods expect their clerics to represent THEM, and that's true to at least some extent, no matter which god you're thinking of.

[Coriat]

Is there any reason that disguise self (or a hat of disguise) to alter the appearance of your equipment, specifically, your holy symbol, would be insufficient?

If there is, Inner Focus is the spell for you.

[Malag]

LazarX wrote:

Malag wrote:

I am kind of curious about this also. Would there be any repercussions for the given cleric?

Depends on the patron. A cleric of a god that's highly strict in matters of honor and honesty, had better have a VERY good reason for doing so, and may still need to atone later. The gods expect their clerics to represent THEM, and that's true to at least some extent, no matter which god you're thinking of.

Well I am more interested into repercussions of deity which you falsely represent. I have a cleric of Zyphus at PFS, so I am wondering if there is any official stuff about falsely representing Pharasma for example.

[Mark Hoover]

Y'know this thread brings up an interesting point. I've heard it in other discussion threads that a cleric in PF doesn't have to be tied to a specific deity. Rather they pray to several different gods but one is their primary patron. For example if I'm running a cleric of Asmodeus but my guy needs healing he throws a quick shout out to Irori and reminds that deity of a little deal made to contain a certain Rough Beast and the Hand high-fives me with the needed Cure spell.

So in that respect couldn't any cleric masquerade as a member of a different faith? I suppose though since this is a Rules question, the minute I go to cast a spell in character I have to use my own deity's holy symbol so that would squash the point. Still if you had the Birthmark trait you could hold up whatever you wanted as an unconsecrated holy symbol and pretend to be any faith out there.

[LazarX]

In Pathfinder the general rule is that clerics aren't required to worship a god, but those clerics have to be strongly tied to something else such as an ideal.

In Golarion, however the specific setting rules, are that divine casters, even druids, must have a patron diety.

[Jokem]

I recall that some Divine spells do not require a divine focus.
In fact I think most of them do not.

I also recall there is a Birthmark Trait which obviates the need for a divine focus. I don't think there is any reason that would not allow a fake holy symbol to be used.

[Kayerloth]

Jokem is correct only spells with the component DF require a holy symbol to be cast. While you will certainly miss out on some many do not have DF as a component. Just be sure you know which are which when 'faking it'.

And perhaps arguably the Still feat might allow you to void actually needing to present or otherwise actively be doing something with it (i.e the Somatics) other than have it on your person (possession).

And ultimately if your role within the faith requires stealth and subterfuge I'm thinking RAW concerning casting almost by RAW itself says to flex rule 0 and make it work.