| grasp |
First of all, this post is not brag or a way to boost my ego.
I play Pathfinder with a group of friends. I love the feel of the game and the deckbuilding aspect. But there is no chalenge right now. Granted, we played only till "crow bait" (second part of "skinsaw murders" AP 2) but not only we win every scenario, its not even close.
So my first question is: will it get harder? The combat checks are a joke. We play as Merisiel, Ezren, Lem and Harsk. As Merisiel, i start every combat with 1d12+1, 1d8+1 (shock longbow+1), 1d6+1(2d6 if i chose to discard instead of recharging) + 1d4+1 (harsk). Thats not counting blessings / allys. The henchmen were 11 !!! How am i suposed to fail this ??? Ezren and Harks have similar easy times. Lem keeps singing (1d4+1) and throwing cures like there is no tomorrow (2x cures plus his power and he is not even worried about running out). Since all the combat checks are so easy, we can stockpile things and unload at the boss. Last adventure there were so many dices that we didnt have to roll for the boss, wich quite frankly, is lame.
Time is not a issue too. Ezren has augury, haste and one of the detect spells. Between that and his power to re-explore after geting a boon with a magic trait, he generally closes a spell-loaded location on his first turn. Lem goes to the place with most allys and is also very fast, since lots of allys let him explore again. Not to mention holy candle. and consecration (that we are considering to not keep, since it seems like we are never needing it).
Assuming it doesnt get harder, what do i do to keep things interesting (my group is considering quiting, since its so easy, but i do love the game) ??? Do i build an extra location, as if we were playing with 5 (problems is, the combats will still be boring)? Do i add a number to monsters combat checks ? Any sort of restriction on powers ?
Thx in advance
| ryanshowseason2 |
Add the extra location sure, consider ditching holy candle if it just isn't needed. I've done that before in a 2 player game.
You can also consider initiating the deck 3 rule early. That banishes basic trait cards from the game entirely. This includes monsters and barriers. This makes the barriers that do exist a smaller pool of harder ones. You may even want to tweak this and pre-banish a bunch of them to make the pool instantly harder.
Other than that it sounds like you just have a lot of good loot already. Shock longbow is basically the best you can get at this point and on the best character for it.
Augury and haste will still be as effective for the duration of the game but the combat checks will become harder and more numerous ezren may be pressed to carry more combat spells.
You got lucky with loot, that seems to be why it is easy IMO.
| Hawkmoon269 |
Not trying to be argumentative here, but sometimes I see things and it makes me wonder if, perhaps, you might be doing something wrong. You might not be, but I just thought I'd mention a few things. Please don't take this to be in any way antagonistic or mean in anyway. I'm honestly just trying to be helpful.
1. Yes, you can do lots of damage for a combat check. But if you are using so many cards on a combat check, especially to help others, you won't have many cards left for other things. If Harks helps Merisiel, Ezren, and Lem with combat checks on their turns, he'll be starting his turn with three less cards. Likewise, every time Lem helps on someone else's check, he'll start his turn with less cards. I'm basically saying, are you only drawing cards at the end of your turn and not at the end of other players' turns?
2. You mention Ezren and the "detect spells". It is nuanced understanding, but Ezren's power to get a free exploration doesn't work with a card he acquires from a spell like Detect Magic. Detect Magic doesn't let Ezren explore (it lets him encounter) and his power only works when he is exploring.
So, I'm saying, there is a chance you might be accidentally making the game a bit easier than it should be. Maybe you aren't, but in my groups we've definitely failed a few times and been crunched for time lots of times.
Anyway, good luck on your adventure.
| jones314 |
I played the whole Rise of the Runelords campaign in two different groups. The group of three I thought was easier than the group of six, because we weren't as crunched for time. So you are at maybe the sweet spot, # of characters-wise. This game has to play differently from other coops because if you have even a 5% chance of dying in each scenario, you very probably won't make it to the end.
But you can make the game more difficult without making it too much riskier. In addition to extra locations or earlier removal of basic banes, you could try the linear movement variant. You put the locations in a line (or some other arrangement) and start all characters at one end. When characters move, count the number of locations you moved and roll a d6. If you don't roll higher, then you must encounter and defeat a random monster to move. This adds maybe some more thematic reason to how the cards are laid out and will probably burn up more resources, increasing the overall difficulty.
Anyways, don't be afraid to experiment a little to make the game even more awesome :)
| MightyJim |
When we played Ezren, he consistently failed to recharge spells. Haste is next-to-useless if you're only playing it once (Seoni on the other hand, loved it).
Obviously, you can have Lem follow him around, but if he's burning cards on all those checks, then he's going to have a (mostly) empty hand on his own turn much of the time.
Even an "easy" combat check can mess you up - The Enchanter is a fairly obvious example of that. 1 damage before the encounter, and 1 after, even if you absolutely stomp her in the actual check - If you've used all your cards on other people's check, you could easily find yourself losing your only weapon and having to punch her (and don't even get me started on Ezren vs the Goblin Warchanter).
Unavoidable direct damage increases as you go through the AP. as do the number of Monsters or Henchmen you encounter which aren't a combat check. (Early on, I think it's only really the satyr, the Siren and the Poison Traps?)
having Played RotR with about half a dozen different groups, 3-4 is definitely the sweet spot. With 1 or 2, you struggle to cover all the areas you need to be good at. With 5 or 6, you run out of time a lot.
| elcoderdude |
BGG threads on the linear movement variant are here and here.
This makes the game harder in two ways. It takes more time to spread out and attack the various locations, requiring you to plan more carefully. Also, it limits assistance to neighboring characters. You could choose to only allow blessings to be played on neighboring characters if you wish.
We play that you can move through a closed location without stopping. Otherwise players can get trapped at the far end of the board.
| grasp |
@hawkmoon269
Thx for the info. We are indeed playing it wrong. Dont think it will make a huge difference but its nice to play correct anyway.
@ryanshowseason2
Already done. At the begining of AP2 we banished all the trivial monsters. Banishing boons will have the oposite effect: well get the good ones sooner.
And yes, i realized that shock longbow is top notch. but even a regular longbow makes the combat trivial.
@jones314
Linear movement is an option. ill discuss with my group. thx for the sugestion
@Mightyjin
Even if he fails to recharge (wich is not a common occurrence), Lem will shuffle it back with the cures. And everytime he casts an arcane spell he can try to find one at the top of his deck. He burns throught it very fast...
@elcoderdude
Thx for the links. Ill check them
On a side note, this was my first post, but i was checking the forum on a regular basis. This is a very polite and friendly forum !!! Not common on my experience (played world of warcraft.... oh boy... go there and check for yourself)
| Hawkmoon269 |
@hawkmoon269
Thx for the info. We are indeed playing it wrong. Dont think it will make a huge difference but its nice to play correct anyway.
If Ezren and Detect Magic is what you were doing wrong, it probably won't make a huge difference. But if it was when you reset your hand, I think it might.
I agree with Joshua Brik 898, the game isn't supposed to be overly hard. I think for RotR we averaged about 5 losses per group per adventure path. But there were definitely many more times where we won on the last turn or two. Those were the most fun.
On a side note, this was my first post, but i was checking the forum on a regular basis. This is a very polite and friendly forum !!! Not common on my experience (played world of warcraft.... oh boy... go there and check for yourself)
It is a great forum. And I hope it always stays that way, even as more people become a part of it as the game is played by more and more players. Thanks for becoming a poster!
| isaic16 |
I agree that RotR is not the most difficult, and if you want a challenge, you'll probably want to do something.
Also, I noted you talked about already having Haste and Auguries, as well as the Shock Longbow. You've obviously had good luck with your drops, and that definitely helps. If you get a bit worse luck, it'll be a lot more difficult.
Another note, if you go through a string of adventures where Merisiel cannot get a weapon out of her deck (I've had it happen), all of a sudden those combat checks are going to absolutely suck.
Last point I noted: You were using the Shock Longbow, so I assume you used a power feat on Weapon proficiency. YOu also said you were getting d6+1 from sneak attack, which is your second power feat. I didn't think you got your second power feat at that point. Am I missing something?
| grasp |
@hawkmoon269
Yes. Just the "detect something" part. And i agree with u. I dont mind if i never loose, but i need to feel that my victory was earned. If i win with, lets say, 1 to 5 blessings left, thats a great game... if i have to pass a opportunity to explore in order to wait for a cure fearing death, that would be nice too.
Thx for the welcome.
@isaic16
Like i said, i noticed that we had good fortune with the loot.
And i had an adventure that all my 3 weapons were at the last 4 cards of my deck. It was annoying for sure, but i have 2 spyglass and 1 wand of minor healing. And both my allies let me explore. So i burned through the deck.
About the powers feat, just got the second one.
| ryanshowseason2 |
It also might be worth noting you are playing some of the most optimal characters for this leg of the game.
When the academy is still coming out to play Ezren will destroy it in a single turn with ease. The magic trait only becomes MORE ubiquitous as the game goes as well.
Mersiel can decide not to fight things she can't win at. That and longbows are the most powerful weapons in the game in the right hands.
While lem is an absolute powerhouse. He is one of the easiest characters to play. Getting to choose favored card type, along with casting any spell in the game and further being able to add to any check to himself or others at the cost of recharging any card type is VERY powerful. IMHO the class deck bards took this down a notch by only allowing it with certain card types and not being able to help yourself as easily.
Perhaps some of the other more complex characters might be to your groups preferences. Whereas those three only have positive traits to them perhaps characters with weakness might make the game more challenging.
The barbarian (Amiti? Forget her name) Has to bury her own cards to get a bonus which is much harsher than any other power in the game.
The paladin can scout ahead but at the price of throwing out boons she finds in the process.
Siwar the class deck bard can help others still but she starts with only a few spells and no weapons she will often find herself struggling to survive.
| bbKabag |
I also play with a group of 4 (Merisiel, Seoni, Seelah, Kyra)
The first thing we decided to do was always add a 7th and an 8th Location.
We failed Adventure 1: Burnt Offerings' Local Heroes scenario twice and on the third try we decided to stick with only 7 locations. We are now currently playing on Adventure 2: Skinsaw Murders and since Local Heroes, we barely finish scenarios with only 1-3 blessings remaining in the Blessings Deck. This is already with Holy Candle.
Since our party did not have Harsk, Lem, or Valeros, we rely on our own combat abilities with exceptions of some spells like Aid, Strength, as well as blessings. I'd say your party is very optimal and Harsk is a reason your combat checks are trivial.
We noticed that finding the Villain/Henchmen early in the location helps with fast clearing. When we are lucky and find them sooner, we tend to finish a scenario quicker. That could also be another factor as to why its easier.
We occasionally fail closing checks often so we tend to have to go through the whole location deck. And as Merisiel, closing the General Store and staying several extra turns to get all the items also causes us some precious turns.
My first advice to you is add a 7th or even an 8th location on your Scenarios.
My second is as Hawkmoon pointed out, make sure you are ONLY resetting your hand at YOUR end of turn.
I initially made the mistake of drawing back up on someone else's end of turn and that felt wrong, so we checked and corrected ourselves. Now when someone uses a blessing or a spell on someone elses turn, they have that much less cards to play with when their turn comes.
So for your party, say Harsk ends his turn and now has 5 cards in his hand. If he decides to help all 3 other characters with one combat check each, he will be left with only 2 cards on his turn and only be able to draw back up to 5 after that turn.
Also like they said, your party has acquired really top notch loot already so it is understandable that things are a bit easier for you guys now.
(This is another reason why I felt like adding all class 7 class deck cards to makes it harder to find the best cards while also adding unique cards to make every encounter more exciting)
Just try having all 8 locations first. After trying it and its not enough, you can then try to do other things such as having Holy Candle banish instead of bury. and such.
I also saw someone mention they always increase the banes' difficulty by the adventure number regardless if the card doesn't already have it. That's also an option for you.