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Hi, I'm making an Ulfen Guard prestige class character for PFS and I'm kinda split over how to build the character.
The basic ideal is a Ulfen character (aka, race: Human), who is able to fight in melee or at range. I'm also trying to avoid the "Big, dumb, strong, Barbarian", "Huge Hulk Smash!" or "Stupid Viking Raider" builds/stereotypes. I also don't want to make a pure archer, as I already had a pure archery character.
Please help! I have came up with these 2 builds. Any advice on which is better, is anything missing and how to improve them would be greatly appreciated.
*Note: As this is for PFS, character race has to be human (Ulfen) to qualify for the Ulfen Guard prestige class. No half-humans or human-outsider mixes qualify in PFS.
1) Axe or Hammer, with Shield
STR: 17 DEX: 14 CON: 15 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 8
or
STR: 19 DEX: 12 CON: 15 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 7
Lv 1 - Savage Technologist Barbarian 1 - +2 Str, Dex and Will, no minus to AC.
Lv 1 - Feat - Quick Draw
Lv 1 - Human Feat - Dodge
Lv 2 - Fighter 1 (default, Axes Weapons), Feat: Weapon Focus (Throwing axe)
Lv 3 - Brawler 1 (default), Feat: Combat Expertise
Lv 4 - Fighter 2 - Martial Versatility or Weapon Focus (Battleaxe)
Lv 5 - Fighter 3 - Power Attack
Lv 6 - Fighter 4 - Point Blank Shot
Lv 7 - Fighter 5 - Axes Weapon group, Feat - Precise Shot
Lv 8 - Ulfen Guard 1 - Guard Dedication - Close-Quarters Thrower
Lv 9 - Ulfen Guard 2 - Rapid Shot
Lv 10 - Ulfen Guard 3 - Guard Dedication - Weapon Specialization - (Throwing axe)
Lv 11 - Ulfen Guard 4 - Martial Versatility or Weapon Specialization (Battleaxe)
Combat style:
Melee: Keeps light steel quickdraw shield, before pulling out and using a battleaxe two-handed in melee, before drawing and getting back under the cover of the light steel quickdraw shield.
Range: Quick draws throwing axes for range attacks, keep shield out.
Questions:
1) Axe or Hammers? Which is better to have, the character ideals works with either, so which is better? (Avoiding spears…)
2) Is there any metal weapon that is 1-handed and have a throw range?
3) Any ways to max 1 handed range thrown weapons damage?
Notable Equipment -
Basic: Battleaxes + Throwing Axes + Quickdraw Shield
Belt of Mighty Hurling (Lesser) ??? - This is quite expensive, so is it worth it at all?
Cloak of Resistance - as high as can afford due to low will saves
Gloves of Dueling - For weapon training +2 Atk and Dmg.
OR
2) Longsword and Longbow
(Not making an archer, already have a pure archer character)
STR: 17 DEX: 15 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 9
Or
STR: 17 DEX: 15 CON: 15 INT: 10 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 - Human Dual Talent, no bonus feat and extra skill point
Lv 1 - Savage Technologist Barbarian 1
Lv 1 - Feat - Quick Draw
Human Feat - Point Blank Shot
Lv 2 - Slayer 1 - default Slayer
Lv 3 - Slayer 2 Feat - Rapid Shot
Lv 3 - Slayer 2 - - Ranger Combat Style (Ex) - (Archery) - Precise Shot
Lv 4 - Slayer 3
Lv 5 - Slayer 4, Feat - Power Attack
Lv 5 - Slayer 4 - Rogue Talent - weapon training - Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Lv 6 - Slayer 5
Lv 7 - Slayer 6, Feat - Manyshot
Lv 7 - Slayer 6 - Ranger Combat Style (Ex) - (Archery) - Improved Precise Shot
Lv 7 - Slayer 6 (Favored Class bonus) - Rogue Talent - Combat Trick - Clustered Shots
Lv 8 - Ulfen Guard 1 - Guard Dedications - Deflect Arrows (Ex)
Lv 9 - Ulfen Guard 2, Feat - Deadly Aim
Lv 10 - Ulfen Guard 3 - Guard Dedications - Formal Training (Ex) - Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Lv 11 - Ulfen Guard 4, Feat - ???
Combat style:
Melee: Keeps light steel quickdraw shield, before pulling out and using a longsword two-handed in melee, before drawing and getting back under the cover of the light steel quickdraw shield.
Range: Keeps light steel quickdraw shield, before pulling out and using a longbow two-handed for range, before keeping bow and getting back under the cover of the light steel quickdraw shield.
Questions:
1) Almost feels like making a straight up archer with this build. Good or bad ideal?
2) Any feats (especially for melee) that I’m missing out?
3) Too many free actions???
Notable Equipment -
Basic: Longsword + Longbow + arrows + Quickdraw Shield
Belt of +2 to Str, Dex and Con
Cloak of Resistance - as high as can afford due to low will saves
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!
Purely ranged throwing weapons (e.g. Chakram, hunga munga) often don't list whether they're light or one-handed. On the other hand they may be the wrong culture for your character anyway.
A heavy shield can have the throwing shield modification but not quick draw and is one handed. It seems more appropriate?
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@Avoron,
Thanks for pointing out that archetype. Sadly after asking around, I was quickly reminded that with armour training from fighter levels, I would want to keep my fast movement as combining with armor training equals 40 foot of land movement.
I wanted a metal 1 handed throw weapon, as there is hardness to consider. That makes having an adamantine weapon a must have now-a-days.
@avr,
I'm hoping for an axe or hammer to match the "Ulfen" look of the character. I did saw the "Captain America" shield thrower build, but that ideal would likely end up with my Liberty's Edge character instead. The Ulfen guard would be Sovereign Court for the proper Ulfen guard vanity... :P
I played my Ulfen PC for Jade Regent with the shield fighter archetype and had a blast sword and board the entire way. One of the most enjoyable PC I've ever played. There is some great inspiration in Cornwell's saxon series.
v/r
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I played my Ulfen PC for Jade Regent with the shield fighter archetype and had a blast sword and board the entire way. One of the most enjoyable PC I've ever played. There is some great inspiration in Cornwell's saxon series.
v/r
Walter, did you pick up the Ulfen Guard prestige class? Just wondering what combination of Barbarian and Fighter would be ideal, before picking Ulfen Guard.
@Rodinia, I did thought about going with a spear build or a pole arm, specially since the spears could be thrown.
I decided otherwise cos:
1) The character is already able to hit targets at range. The only advantage of a polearm is a greater threat range. With Close-Quarters Thrower, I can hit large targets with reach without them able to strike me back.
2) The Ulfen Guards are bodyguards, so won't a long weapon like a polearm, while great in a battlefield, be out of place for a bodyguard?
I have an alternate take on your first idea that I would like to share.
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14
1 Bloodrager 1 (Celestial Bloodline), Weapon Focus (Battle Axe), Point Blank Shot, Rage, Fast Movement
2 Swashbuckler 1, Swashbuckler Finesse, Deeds
3 Swashbuckler 2, Slashing Grace (Battle Axe), Charmed Life
4 Swashbuckler 3, Nimble, Deeds
5 Swashbuckler 4, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot
6 Swashbuckler 5, Swashbuckler Weapon Training
7 Ulfen Guard 1, Weapon Specialization (Battle Axe), Deflect Arrows, Chosen Ally
8 Ulfen Guard 2, Guarded Thoughts
9 Ulfen Guard 3, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus, Formal Training
10 Ulfen Guard 4, Adaptable Guardian
11 Ulfen Guard 5, Bleeding Critical, Alert Guardian
Notable Equipment: Mithral Breastplate, Buckler, Battle Axe: all of these need to be at the highest enhancement bonus possible. Daggers are the thrown weapon of choice here because they work with all your swashbuckler abilities. You can grab the trait River Rat to up their damage, but this character may already have traits selected.
If you start to worry more about will saves than offense at 9th and 11th you can get Iron Will and Improved Iron Will instead of Critical Focus and Bleeding Critical. I think you should be fine between Charmed Life and Guarded Thoughts though.
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...2) The Ulfen Guards are bodyguards, so won't a long weapon like a polearm, while great in a battlefield, be out of place for a bodyguard?
I can see some situations where a polearm could be advantageous for a bodyguard.
1) If you stand guard in a throne room, you don't have to be in the face of your charge at all times, giving him/her a semblance of privacy, without minimizing your ability to protect him.
2) A polearm can be used to block people from getting to close to your charge, simply lower the weapon in front of the person approaching. Simply put, the further out you stop a person approaching, the harder it is for that person to harm your charge.
3) You always have a polearm ready, since it's hard to put away, a sword or an axe at the ready sends (in my mind anyway) a different, more hostile, message, so people that talks to your charge aren't frightened as much
I'm not saying that you should focus on polearms, just see the value of having one.
@Gregory: Why Slashing Grace? Your strength is higher than your dexterity.
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It makes the axe count as a piercing weapon for panache recovery, precise strike and weapon training.
Yeah, but there's no real reason to use an axe, at least none that I can think of. It uses up a feat, you can't wield it in two hands for extra damage, and the chances of a critical hit are quite low.
You'd be much better off with a rapier or even a heavy pick, but if those don't work for some reason, any one-handed piercing simple or martial weapon would be better.
From an optimization standpoint I agree entirely. I was trying to show an alternate way to build the OP's character concept, rather than make the most effective character possible.
For the axe/hammer throwing build, the Hurler barbarian archetype is great and stacks with Savage Technologist, replacing fast movement with +10 to range increment with thrown weapons.
Sadly, there are no non-spear-ish metal one-handed thrown weapons that I can find.
Trident?
Or is that still too spear-like?
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From an optimization standpoint I agree entirely. I was trying to show an alternate way to build the OP's character concept, rather than make the most effective character possible.Yeah, but there's no real reason to use an axe, at least none that I can think of. It uses up a feat, you can't wield it in two hands for extra damage, and the chances of a critical hit are quite low.
You'd be much better off with a rapier or even a heavy pick, but if those don't work for some reason, any one-handed piercing simple or martial weapon would be better.
Thanks Gregory.
Yours is a really interesting ideal, I got to go back to the drawing board to weigh out which build I would prefer. There just seems to be many ways to reach Ulfen Guard.
1 question - Why Bloodrager 1 (Celestial Bloodline)? I understand the good align to weapons... but is there another benefit I'm missing?
I way very well go with a shortspear... going with an axe or hammer just seems to use up way too many feats. Not what I had in mind... so I will have to see which is better...
So the Ulfen Guard are "totally not the Varangian Guard", the bodyguard to Byzantine rulers, however what bodyguard means in this context is kinda more " private army of vikings" than guys standing next to the throne, though presumably that would also be in portfolio. They were certainly a battlefield force, so your spear type stuff could be appropriate.
Drawing from their inspiration, though, theyhad horses but also operated afoot, probably wore medium armor, chain or lamellar, and carried shields, daneaxes and swords, and bows. Could be a cavalier but that sounds like a pretty solid ranger to me. Switch hit, or take sword and shield style for shield master at level 6 before going into the ulfen guard PRC. Have a horse animal companion, some throwing weapons and a bow for backup and go battleaxe and shield. Favored enemy can be whatever but humans makes sense for a soldier slash bodyguard. Just some thoughts, anyway. Have fun with it, viking hero!
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Oh heck! I just found a site on viking weapons... http://www.hurstwic.com/history/text/history.htm
It seems like:
Swords - heirloom weapons that are rare and very expensive. Quote "the sword was the mark of a warrior in the Viking age"
Spears - Most common viking weapon, everyone uses them, cos they are very versatile. They can be thrown or "could be used for cutting, thrusting, or hewing". Used most commonly by peasants.
Axes - "The axe was often the choice of the poorest man in the Viking age.", but there are axes there ARE made for war and combat.
The site specifically stated they are the stereotype weapons, when people think vikings... lol
Also there seems to be axes of different lengths... the long ones look just like how I imagined Dwarven long axes look like...
Bows - used mainly for hunting, but also in war.
Damn... I sooo need to rethink what weapon to focus on... Its the vikings knows 5 different weapon groups and their warriors can use all of them...
Where is the prestige class from? I'm looking for the info on it and i cant find it.
Just my two cents. One thing that you might want to consider is going straight Fighter and using the Viking Archetype from People of the North. It gives an AC bonus when using shields and gives rage as a barbarian, just a few levels later. It would be thematic and fit with the concept you're going for with an Ulfen Guard. The only big thing you'd give up would be fast movement. I'd go ax and shield with that set-up.
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Where is the prestige class from? I'm looking for the info on it and i cant find it.
Inner Sea Combat pg. 34
You can check it out at here at Archives of Nethys first.
Grab the book if you one, it is quite good. Especially if you want to roleplay a Wind Sister aka mounted flying Ulfen maidens, as Inner Sea Combat give access to griffons as mounts via 2 feats.
so only humans can select Ulfen Guard as a PrC? The "Ulfen descent" pre-req does not apply to half elves or half orcs with one parent an Ulfen?
Oh heck! I just found a site on viking weapons... http://www.hurstwic.com/history/text/history.htm
It seems like:
Swords - heirloom weapons that are rare and very expensive. Quote "the sword was the mark of a warrior in the Viking age"
Spears - Most common viking weapon, everyone uses them, cos they are very versatile. They can be thrown or "could be used for cutting, thrusting, or hewing". Used most commonly by peasants.
Axes - "The axe was often the choice of the poorest man in the Viking age.", but there are axes there ARE made for war and combat.
The site specifically stated they are the stereotype weapons, when people think vikings... lolAlso there seems to be axes of different lengths... the long ones look just like how I imagined Dwarven long axes look like...
Bows - used mainly for hunting, but also in war.
Damn... I sooo need to rethink what weapon to focus on... Its the vikings knows 5 different weapon groups and their warriors can use all of them...
It can be more complicated than that.
Axes tend to work great against the chain armor and such of the period. Axes are balanced to have heft and striking force, which makes them somewhat hammer-ish in practice. So even if you don't cut through, you are probably breaking some things.
Swords were often valued for thursting, which can do fairly lethal blows when you hit. Piercing weapons also have an advantage against the armor stated above. Swords balanced for piercing tend to be easier to parry and deflect though (since the stabby end is designed to be easy to maneuver).
So the difference could easily be choice...of course, OWNING a sword is still a status symbol. Even if your main weapon is a nice two handed ax, you might have a sword at your hip as a sign of HEY I CAN BUY ONE OF THESE, I'VE GOT MONEY AND POWER. For someone specifically hired to protect a king, that might be rather important, either personally or as a tradition.
Spears are always useful, no matter your social standing. Enough to be a primary weapon much of the time on the battlefield. But you would have something smaller and more wieldly when things got in close. So having a sword/ax back up would not exactly hurt.
so only humans can select Ulfen Guard as a PrC? The "Ulfen descent" pre-req does not apply to half elves or half orcs with one parent an Ulfen?
Just from a story perspective, I can see half orcs getting a pass, but half elves might be suspected to be sleeper agents for Kyonin
Think about it- elves live long enough that they can actually go through the process of having and raising a half elf purely for convoluted poltical strategies that might have dried up long ebfore it comes to bear. The span of time to raise a half elf is practically like....3 years to an elf. Relatively minor for long term intelligence planning.