Sometimes when you have a character concept for an NPC you need to have the character be a certain level in order to have access to the abilities you want them to make use of or the spells they need to help the party.
However, my PCs are some of the smoothest talkers and love recruiting NPCs to come along with them. Not like Leadership recruit but "Come along for the adventure for a share of the loot" full party member recruitment.
Now, obviously I am not letting them recruit people who have other things to do such as Quests, spouses, jobs, and etc but sometimes I have a character who wouldn't have any reason to refuse.
In this case, I already have stated them as a high-level character or shown off a high level class feature, and I need to tone them down from what a full level 10 or etc could do so the party feels like they are contributing to the fight.
One of the solutions I came up with was to use certain spells like Divine Trident: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/divine-trident
Other solutions basically just involve doing "Fun" rather than "Optimal" build suggestions. Anchoring Weapons, etc etc. I also sometimes make my NPCs interesting characters, like Herdlander the Forgetful a Merfolk barbarian who has short term memory loss that triggers after every rage. He also only ever hit something once during a turn. So I guess I also make them choose sub-optimal strategic decisions.
Has anyone else ever done something like this? Or thought about doing it? It is a great way to make a higher level character safe to accompany a lower level party.
Well, you seem to have it in hand for making poorly built high level NPCs, but there's an excuse you didn't list: Retirement.
High level adventurers are crazy rich, and can live very comfortably without continuing to risk their lives. So they might be willing to aid the PCs with their abilities, but they don't necessarily want to experience pain and death again.
Retirement is a good answer, and I will add it to the list Petty Alchemy.
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Retirement is solid.
Flavorful build options are also solid...but really, my favorite is just building them as someone who's never even considered being an adventurer and has little interest or skill in that area.
This doesn't work for martial characters, generally...but then you rarely need a specific class feature from those.
For example, a Human Cleric at level 10 might easily be middle-age and have stats like this:
Str 7 Dex 11 Con 9 Int 16 Wis 19 Cha 14 (sans items).
And not a single Feat or anything else invested in combat or Save DC boosters. All FC bonuses in skills. So...less than 40 HP.
That's a legal stat-spread and makes a lot of sense as a high priest, or something like that...but isn't exactly a guy you probably want on adventures with you, nor someone who will be likely to come along on them.
Heck, even his offensive spells probably max at Save DC 20. Yeah, he can use buff spells, but he's unlikely to memorize many unless coached by the PCs...and that's as a Cleric, one of the most useful pure support classes.
Characters can always have a good reason to not adventure. If you don't have one for the character currently, consider elaborating on the character further. I feel like characters that can't come up with a reason not to adventure don't have a fleshed out existence.
Can you give an example of what high level power you showed off for a character and now your players are trying to recruit?
I can usually provide a circumstance in which they have no desire to follow the party around, like most wizards and clerics who have their own things to do when they aren't providing the party a free series of spells/transportation (Or paid for depending on the situation, rolls of the dice, and RPing)
I can give a few examples though, once I had my players roll fantastically on knowledge local to find themselves the best thief in the city to help them with a covert operation they were attempting. The mission went successfully, mostly you know how players are. The thief was a ninja of at least 10th level because he had ghost-stepped through a wall to get past a trap that otherwise would have wrecked the party and got the goods.
Afterwards they managed to successfully Diplo the theif into joining up with a large amount of gold up front and an offer of a share of the loot for his services. The Bard is basically a Charisma and Diplomacy God.
From there on the Thief accompanied the party and leveled with them. The theif never actually acted aggressively in combat, simply applying distractions and such. Mostly they hid using Invisibility and used Greater Steal to get things from enemies. A few times they gave some HP potions to people who were critically wounded, or would play the part of a distraction for the party. That sort of thing.
Just one example, I can list a few more if you want.
But yeah, my players are pretty chill and if an NPC is good enough and willing to follow them around they are happy to have extra bodies and abilities.
To date they have managed to get (for periods of time across different campaigns):
1: The aforementioned Ninja thief
2: An Alchemist that accompanied them and gave out Infused Extracts/Potions for a small Fee (He didn't get XP in the same way the players did but did level with them nor did he help in combat unless his wagon was attacked)
3: They had a Pathfinder Chronicler they 'adopted'
4: At one point they hired on a full time smith for magical equipment
5: The Amnesiac Barbarian
And probably a few others I am forgetting
Honestly it has almost become a tradition that the group see who they can get to join up. The NPCs are treated well, and get a share of the loot or simply a flat GP per day/week rate or perhaps nothing but meals and board. It all comes down to what is arranged between the party and the person they are trying to get to sign-on.
Prestige classes. Most of them are pretty bad options and would gimp a PC, but not an NPC who is not held to the same standards.
The problem isn't a lack of "retired" high level former adventurers, the problem is having to convince them to be able to return to the adventuring life. They left for a reason, and for them to return should need a dramatic reason equal or grater than the one that made them retire.
Another possibility is adventurer for hire, ones that simply won't work without a clear goal or reward. In this case it is more of a contract for hire rather than an NPC adventuring for an emotional motivation.
other possibilities are groupless adventurers, or an adventurer with a hidden motivation working with the first group coming along. The motivation doesn't have to be sinister or problematic. Examples include agents for the local nobility travelling with a group just to explore a region and eventually report back, if no one suspects the NPC as an agent of the crown, so much the better. A lone Pathfinder agent could also be used for similar purpose.
I go the other direction. I give them exactly what they want and then watch them not know what to do with it. If the characters befriend the 18th level sorcerer who knows Permanency and Teleportation Circle, they are gonna get really bored when he scry and fries their enemies and keeps the treasure. Diplomacy only does so much and "give me treasure" is not a reasonable request. My players got the message. The game works when you stay at your own paygrade and respect genre tropes, when you stop doing this the fun stops too.
So, stop giving your players so much information. If your players didn't watch it happen, don't have the NPCs tell them exactly what they did. He got past the trap. He slyly avoids ever explaining what he did.
Also, a diplomacy check doesn't make someone your permanent ally. It can make them temporarily friendly. I suggest in the future you enforce this rule:
You cannot use Diplomacy against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence of 3 or less. Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future. Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).
They don't gain his permanent friendship from a single interaction. It's not that simple. They would need to invest lots of time or effort to convince someone to go with them. And it wouldn't be boiled down to a simple diplomacy check. You're failing to use the rules put in place.
(Edit: As Rerednaw already suggested,)
Use NPC classes. They're NPCs, after all.
I am not building a specific character in this situation Elemental, just asking for suggestions on how to build them.
Also, I know that Diplomacy doesn't work instantly to secure a long term relationship and I rely on my players to keep the NPCs interested. It all depends on the circumstances.
For example, with the thief above: The mission went off nearly without a hitch and the NPC walked off with some serious treasure since that was the agreement (The PCs wanted one thing inside the Mansion, the NPC grabbed the rest and shoved it in a Handy Haversack). From there, he was quite happy, and when the PCs suggested that he come along the NPC was perfectly happy to use them as an excuse to get out of town (Since this particular noble did not like being stole from).
Additionally the PCs offered to pay him a large fee to keep following them, and guaranteed him a share of ALL treasure. Lastly, there was an agreement that assistance in combat (Beyond distractionary and being an invisible jerk) was extra.
That is a lot of VERY good reasons to follow the PCs around, and when they kept to their word and even defended the thief from the bounty hunters that came after the whole party (But wanted just the thief)...let us just say that I decided against forcing them to roll some more Diplomacy rolls and just made some rolls behind my little curtain to see just how appreciate this particular ninja was.
They kept him for the rest of the campaign that was on that Continent, and then he went left and they went right on good terms when the party decided to go wandering into the lands beyond the seas (rumored to be largely barren and too uncivilized for this character).
Consider mixes that give a good range of abilities without giving high levels in those abilities.
For examples:
Bard 5/ Cleric(evangelist) 3/ Mystic Theurge "x"
He's got bardic performance and lots of spells but they are all low level. He's competent in combat and can wear armor but isn't going to outshine anyone but the arcane casters in hand to hand.
Alchemist (oenopion researcher) "x"/ Gunslinger 5
The alchemist is interested in black powdered weapons and is good enough with them, but not high enough level in gunslinger to make him a damage monkey. He has some alchemical skill giving out some infusions and with the discovery can shoot his bombs out of his gun. As an oenopion he can provide some extracts and infusions... but do you really want to trust his chemicals?
Investigator (sleuth) "x" / swashbuckler (picaroon) 2
With swashbuckler levels in picaroon means he has two weapon fighting. Make him a half elf and give him a sawtooth saber and he's fighting with a 'light' weapon and one handed weapon without the penalties. Let him use slashing grace and now he has decent to good damage. Lots of points to spend on adding to his rolls without all the alchemical stuff. Useful at low levels due to the abilities coming in early, still moving at high levels without overshadowing anyone due to the lack of stellar abilities.
Alchemist (oenopion researcher) "x"/ Gunslinger 5
Oh, I made this guy once. Grew four arms, two-weaponed a pair of muskets, and put out a pretty substantial amount of damage from around the field. The guns' ability to hit touch AC negated the slight loss in BAB from alchemist, my tumor monkey familiar kept an extra gun in tote that he would swap out for misfires (and clear on the broken gun on the subsequent turn), and adding bombs to gunshots was just plain fun. It's a much better combo than you give credit. Five levels of 'slinger is all you need to be a damage monkey when you have rapid shot, two weapon fighting feats, and deadly aim.
'twas a bit MAD, but that particular game had rolled stats, and that GM did 4d6 drop lowest reroll 1's AND 2's
Don't get me wrong it can really be nasty I agree. But most people don't look that far into it. Personally I used the extra arm to use a tower shield at lower levels and went with cryptbreaker instead for the force damage instead of fire. Based him off of the space marine master of the forge I have for my warhammer 40k army.
That is a lot of VERY good reasons to follow the PCs around, and when they kept to their word and even defended the thief from the bounty hunters that came after the whole party (But wanted just the thief)...let us just say that I decided against forcing them to roll some more Diplomacy rolls and just made some rolls behind my little curtain to see just how appreciate this particular ninja was.
They kept him for the rest of the campaign that was on that Continent, and then he went left and they went right on good terms when the party decided to go wandering into the lands beyond the seas (rumored to be largely barren and too uncivilized for this character).
Meh. You say very good reasons to follow, I see opportunities to come up with very good reasons not to.
Why would you want to pay me so much money to follow you around? You want me to work for you? I don't work. I'm a theif. Cuts into the lifestyle.
I followed you out of town because it was prudent to leave after such a big heist, don't need anyone breathing down my neck. Plus, I can't sell all this loot in the town I stole it from. That's just asking to get caught.
You all attract attention and danger. These are the opposite things that I want. I want lots of loot AND a long, uneventful life. Thanks for the offer, and while it's lucrative, I prefer my organs in their original positions.
I guess it is just my style of GMing. I like to keep my players options open, and if they are willing to invest the resources into something I will generally let them have it. There are limits of course, people need a reason to be willing to join and they need to be kept interested and well fed/paid to stick around. But if it makes things more fun and gives my party more ways to social their way through the game I am all for it.
I hadn't thought of rampet multiclassing though, that was a good bit of advice.
I guess it is just my style of GMing. I like to keep my players options open, and if they are willing to invest the resources into something I will generally let them have it. There are limits of course, people need a reason to be willing to join and they need to be kept interested and well fed/paid to stick around. But if it makes things more fun and gives my party more ways to social their way through the game I am all for it.
I hadn't thought of rampet multiclassing though, that was a good bit of advice.
Well, you came in asking for reason or how to handle a situation. That was avoiding giving your party overly powerly assitants. Or at least thats what it sounded like to me.
My method of avoiding doing so is to come up with reason why they can't join the party with whatever they're doing, for more than a brief time period. It's fine to give them some short help, but permanent power ups in the form of extra NPCs can be...difficult to manage.