Shield Bash: Do you need Martial Weapon Prof. (Shield)?


Rules Questions


Does a shield proficiency cover both the defensive use and the shield bash use of a shield? Or do you need Martial Weapon Prof (Shield) to be considered proficient in the shield bash?


Proficiency covers both.


In general shield proficiency listed in classes' proficiencies only apply to defensive use. If a class has martial weapons proficiency, they can shield bash.

For example, a standard cleric isn't proficient with shield bash.

EDIT: Here's the FAQ on the matter.

FAQ wrote:


Shield Bash: If I am proficient with wearing shields, can I make a shield bash without a nonproficiency penalty?
Armor proficiencies and weapon proficiencies are different things.

Table 6–4: Weapon (page 142) lists light shields, heavy shields, and spiked shields as martial weapons. The shield bash attacks entries (page 152) say that using a shield in this way is a "martial bludgeoning weapon."

Regardless of whether or not you are proficient in wearing a shield for defense, attacking with a shield is using a martial weapon and you take appropriate penalties if you are not proficient in martial weapons (for example, if you are a cleric, you take a –4 nonproficiency penalty when making shield bash attacks because you are not proficient in martial weapons).

Grand Lodge

Yes.

The Shield is a weapon, and need the proper weapon proficiency to use it properly, as a weapon.


I stand corrected.


Yep, wielding a shield as a weapon requires martial weapon proficiency or else you take the non-proficiency penalty.

You could do it, you'll just suck at it.


Officially you need the separate weapon proficiency.

I personally feel that's a horrible idea though. Shields do weak damage and you lose the armor of the shield when attacking with it unless you have a separate feat. Putting a feat tax on attacking with the shield just feels unnecessary.

This decision also confuses the weapon and armor proficiencies. It's the reason shield champion is broken. As writing you have proficiency in shields and shields sounds like a mistake.


Melkiador wrote:

Officially you need the separate weapon proficiency.

I personally feel that's a horrible idea though. Shields do weak damage and you lose the armor of the shield when attacking with it unless you have a separate feat. Putting a feat tax on attacking with the shield just feels unnecessary.

The one exception, however, is a dual-shield-wielding Warpriest: no two-weapon-fighting penalties, you always keep your highest Shield Bonus to Armor, your Enhancement Bonus on a Shield applies as a though it were a bonus to the Shield as a Weapon, and you are dealing greater damage than the Shield normally would even at lv1.

It doesn't become Superman until about lv11 or 12, but it's still a solid choice before then, and in games going to lv15+ it's just absurd.

Sczarni

chbgraphicarts wrote:
Melkiador wrote:

Officially you need the separate weapon proficiency.

I personally feel that's a horrible idea though. Shields do weak damage and you lose the armor of the shield when attacking with it unless you have a separate feat. Putting a feat tax on attacking with the shield just feels unnecessary.

The one exception, however, is a dual-shield-wielding Warpriest: no two-weapon-fighting penalties, you always keep your highest Shield Bonus to Armor, your Enhancement Bonus on a Shield applies as a though it were a bonus to the Shield as a Weapon, and you are dealing greater damage than the Shield normally would even at lv1.

It doesn't become Superman until about lv11 or 12, but it's still a solid choice before then, and in games going to lv15+ it's just absurd.

Ranger is good too. Gets Shield Master at 6th, which is fantastic in a capped game.

Grand Lodge

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If your Shield Champion wants to worship Gorum you can take the religion trait Shield-Trained which allows heavy and light weapons as simple weapons rather than martial weapons and also heavy shields are considered light weapons. Fixes the problem and cool flavor!

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