Spiritualists: Which Phantom's the Best?

[XandZero2]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in the process of building a Spiritualist to play later this week, and I was wondering what everyone thought about the different Phantom options that are out currently. I realize that the playtest options are only the tip of the iceberg, and it's already been noted that there will be more Phantom emotions coming out down the pipeline. Still though, I'm curious what are everyone's current thoughts.

So, keeping that in mind - which Phantoms do you guys think are the strongest? Which Phantoms do you think are the weakest? Why?

Personally, having only looked over them all on paper, I feel like the one that gets Power Attack as a bonus feat will probably be the strongest (it has a nice aura effect too) - but then the Fear Phantom also looks like a lot of fun (causing everything to be shaken and feared with its slams and aura).

The Devotion/Zeal Phantom (I forget what it's actual name is) looks to be the weakest to me, as it's aura isn't all that great, and personally, the only ability that it gets that I really like is the one where it can stay out even when it's Spiritualist is asleep. That's pretty nifty - but I still don't feel like it's enough to make that Phantom emotion on-par with the others.

[Rerednaw]

#1) Hatred for the accuracy and damage scaling. (weapon finesse, hated target). Plus skill focus Acrobatics/Perception and auto-skills for the Phantom.
#2) Anger for the damage scaling. (str-based, free power attack)
#3) Fear for fun. Shaken (non-stacking) on hit. Granted fear won't work on many things so dependent on your campaign.

Note that even with the damage-scaling phantoms, they still scale terribly as you level up.

I'm playing one strictly for the flavor. :)

[CEBrown]

Depends on what you want the character to do.

1. Anger looks like a double-edged sword, as Anger tends to be. At low levels probably the weakest, at high levels near the top of the power scale so ... mediocre all around.

2. Fear just looks FUN. Not very powerful, given its limitations, but FUN.

3. Hatred is probably the strongest at high levels, and scales the most but it also (for me) is just not very interesting, and not all that different from Anger thematically.

4. Jealousy is an odd one. Not sure how useful the Deceitful bonus feat is, but the powers of this one are so strange it would probably be a lot of fun to play, and would likely be my second choice for an NPC spiritualist (Fear would be first)).

5. Zeal is not very useful in and of itself, but it's a GREAT support-type, especailly for bounty hunters or the like. If that was the kind of character I wanted to run, this would be my first choice as a PC (otherwise I'd probably go with Fear there as well just because it looks like fun).

So it all depends on what you want overall.

[XandZero2]

Fear and Jealousy are actually the two phantoms I was most curious to read opinions on since they are indeed the most unique.

That typed, I feel like Jealousy's Jealous Combatant ability is kind of weak (especially when you consider that Fear has the exact same effect (and then some) with it's slams...

-But wait. I just noticed that Fear specifically calls out that slam attacks are needed to trigger the effect, while with Jealousy you just need to hit with any attack at all (so you could use Jealousy's ability while wielding a weapon).

So maybe the Jealousy Lvl 1 ability does have its advantages over Fear after all if you want to deal more damage. It's aura effect looks potentially effective too & Retribution looks nice if you plan to take the phantom to Lvl 12.

Still, fear does look like fun (especially once you hit Lvl 7).

With all that typed however, I'm still not really feeling Hatred quite yet. It does get Weapon Finesse and it's challenge ability is nice too, but its aura looks incredibly weak. I guess that may not be the main selling point of the emotion, but still I'm stuck on that.

Really, I'm just not sure which phantom I want to play with myself yet. I've got a vague concept in mind for what I want flavor & combat-wise with my Spiritualist (an Osiriani Tengu trying to help a spirit [possibly his wife/lover] find their way into the afterlife & who charges into combat alongside their phantom), but I'm still open to creating a phantom with any emotional leanings.

[CEBrown]

Jealousy seems to fit your proposed background best (the lover/wife just refused to move on for fear he'd find someone else - can't have THAT now!) - though any of them could fit - she might be a craven coward, or angry at being dead (either generalized Anger of specific hatred of her killer, known or unknown), or a zealot of some flavor.

[XandZero2]

I like that idea for why the phantom could be a fear spirit - but yeah, that's basically my issue. I feel like multiple phantoms would work well with my concept, so I was thinking I'd see what everyone thought about the phantoms in-general first. Maybe I won't be having these issues once the full list of phantoms comes out (maybe they'll have a Love spirit that really fits my concept?), but for now - I'm more curious to see what everyone thought of the phantom options mechanically, as that will effect my own phantom choice somewhat.

[redward]

XandZero2 wrote:

Fear and Jealousy are actually the two phantoms I was most curious to read opinions on since they are indeed the most unique.

That typed, I feel like Jealousy's Jealous Combatant ability is kind of weak (especially when you consider that Fear has the exact same effect (and then some) with it's slams...

-But wait. I just noticed that Fear specifically calls out that slam attacks are needed to trigger the effect, while with Jealousy you just need to hit with any attack at all (so you could use Jealousy's ability while wielding a weapon).

So maybe the Jealousy Lvl 1 ability does have its advantages over Fear after all if you want to deal more damage. It's aura effect looks potentially effective too & Retribution looks nice if you plan to take the phantom to Lvl 12.

Shaken is usually better than a straight -2 to attacks, but:

• A decent number of creatures are immune to the effect
  
• Targets get a save with a so-so DC
  
• The -2 stacks with Shaken, so if your Spiritualist or Phantom is making Intimidate checks you can bump it up to a total of -4 to attack

Some other factors to consider are what the Phantoms offer outside of combat:
Anger: Intimidate + Survival
Fear: Intimidate + Stealth + Stealthy
Hatred: Acrobatics + Perception
Jealousy: Appraise + Bluff + Deceitful
Zeal: Acrobatics + Survival + Tracking

Intimidate is a good one, since the Phantoms Charisma will continue to scale up, and the skill is useful in and out of combat.

Fear also looks pretty useful if you want to use your Phantom as a scout.

Hatred seems kind of meh. Perception is great, but the Phantom's Wisdom is too low to make much use of it.

Jealousy...well, Bluff is useful. And Disguise (from Deceitful) may come in handy if you don't want your Phantom freaking people out. Still a relatively underwhelming option, skill-wise.

The tracking for Zeal is nice.

[Gerald Lee]

Consider how far you intend to take the character as well. If one of the phantom abilities is awesome at 12th lvl but weak sauce or not fitting with your RP flavor at low levels, is it really worth playing?

I'm having a blast but also it helps to have party members that are pretty open minded and cohesive, so the phantom more so than the spiritualist is providing a 4th dimension about solving problems in the low tier scenarios currently.

So for combat, my vote is anger, hatred, and fear. For everything else, all the other focuses.

For your concept, I'd take fear. His wife is constantly afraid her husband will get hurt or worse, always worrying...being over protective. You don't have the take the literal aspect of fear, it could be a single phobia or concern. I think the flavor text says experience an extreme emotion before the phantom pulled itself from the ether.