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I have a concept for a character who is an escaped slave who now sells bandits and the like into slavery. I have a few rough ideas, but I want to get the character more flushed out mechanically speaking so that I can play him in the near future. Here are the things I know I want to do:
Half-Orc, though I might be swayed to go human for the bonus feat.
Rogue class, thug and scout archetypes.
Sacred Tattoo, Chain Fighter, and possibly Skilled alternate race features.
Bludgeoner, Enforcer, Sap Adept, and Sap Master feats.
Haman favored class bonus.
Heavy flail for melee, clubs for ranged. Carry several various sized manacles, chains, and ropes for restraining his unconscious victims.
Most likely not going to do this for PFS because of the questionable morality, and I already play paladins when I want to deal with GMs deciding what is and isn't acceptable behavior.
What I need is suggestions for this build. Abilities, skills, rogue talents, feats, traits, etc. It would be super cool if I could also get a plan drawn out for levels 1-20 and an idea of what kind of damage I can be expecting with sneak attacks and how likely they are to land.
Thanks!
Have you considered skulking slayer, the half-orc archetype? it works with scout and would replace thug. It's a bit different but might be a good idea to look into.
Why is Skulking Slayer the better killer? The name of the archetype is that, but the mechanics of it can be fashioned in many ways.
Here's a build for example:
Male Half-Orc rogue 12 Archetypes Scout, Skulking Slayer,
None Medium humanoid (orc, human)
Init +2, Senses darkvision (60 ft.); Perception +15
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DEFENSE
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex, +1 dodge, )
hp 63 ((12d8)+12)
Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +5, +4 Reflex to avoid traps, +3 Will vs. mind-affecting
Defensive Abilities evasion, trap sense +4,
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OFFENSE
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Speed 30 ft.
Special Attacks Crippling Strike, Scout's Charge, Skirmisher, Sneak Attack 6d6,
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STATISTICS
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 16,
Base Atk +9; CMB +14; CMD 27
Feats Bludgeoner, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Enforcer, Improved Surprise Follow-Through, Intimidating Prowess, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatclub, Whip), Sap Adept, Sap Master, Stand Still, Surprise Follow-Through, Weapon Focus (Flail (Heavy))
Skills Acrobatics +6, Bluff +16, Climb +9, Disable Device +6, Disguise +7, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +25, Perception +15, Sense Motive +4, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +11, Swim +9,
Traits Irrepressible, Resilient
Languages Common, Orc
SQ advanced talents, bold strike, bonus feats, bonus rogue talent (12x), chain fighter, class skills, darkvision, hard minded, improved surprise follow-through, intimidating, orc blood, pass for human, rogue talents, rope master, sacred tattoo, shifty, skill ranks per level, strong impression, surprise follow-through, underhanded maneuvers, unexpected charge, weapon and armor proficiency, weapon and armor proficiency,
Combat Gear
Other Gear 0.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Advanced Talents The following advanced rogue talents complement the skulking slayer archetype: crippling strike (Core Rulebook); deadly sneak (Advanced Player's Guide); unwitting ally (Ultimate Combat).
Bold Strike (Ex) When a skulking slayer charges and makes a sneak attack with a two-handed weapon, she rolls d8s instead of d6s for her sneak attack damage.
Bonus Feats A skulking slayer can select the Surprise Follow-Through feat in place of a rogue talent. At 10th level, she can select the Improved Surprise Follow-Through feat in place of an advanced rogue talent.
Bonus Rogue Talent (12x) The human gains +1/6 of a new rogue talent.
Chain Fighter Some half-orcs have escaped from slavery and reforged the chains of their imprisonment into deadly weapons. Half-orcs with this racial trait are proficient with flails and heavy flails, and treat dire flails and spiked chains as martial weapons. This trait replaces the weapon familiarity racial trait.
Class Skills The skulking slayer does not gain Disable Device, Linguistics, and Sleight of Hand as class skills.
Crippling Strike (Ex) You can sneak attack opponents with such precision that your blows weaken and hamper them.
Darkvision (Ex) Range 60 ft.; Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise-invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.
Evasion (Ex) You can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks.
Evasion
Hard Minded (Ex) A rogue with this talent is hard to fool with mind-affecting effects. At the start of her turn, if she is still subject to any mind-affecting spells or effects, she can make a Will saving throw with a standard DC for the effect's level, and if she succeeds at the check, she is no longer subject to the mind-affecting effect. She can make this saving throw even against mind-affecting effects that normally don't allow a saving throw. In those cases, generate the saving throw as if the spell or effect did allow a saving throw.
Improved Surprise Follow-Through A skulking slayer can take the Improved Surprise Follow-Through feat in place of an advanced Rogue Talent
Intimidating (Ex) Half-orc receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate skill checks due to their fearsome nature.
Orc Blood (Ex) Half-orc count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Pass for Human (Ex) When trying to conceal her half-orc heritage, a skulking slayer gains a bonus on Disguise checks equal to half her level. When using disguise to appear as a specific individual, skulking stalkers ignore the normal -2 penalty to appear as another race.
Resilient Growing up in a violent neighborhood or in the unforgiving wilds often forced you to subsist on food and water from doubtful sources.
Rogue Talents The following rogue talents complement the skulking slayer archetype: combat trick, surprise attack (Core Rulebook); combat swipe, powerful sneak (Advanced Player's Guide); terrain mastery (Ultimate Combat).
Rope Master (Ex) A rogue with this ability can move at her normal speed when using rope on a Climb check, can take 10 when using Acrobatics to move over narrow surfaces even when in danger or distracted, and gains a +4 bonus when determining the DC to escape bonds when she ties up a creature.
Sacred Tattoo Tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification are sacred markings to many half-orcs. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces the orc ferocity racial trait.
Scout's Charge (Ex) Whenever you make a charge, your attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
Shifty (Ex) A skulking slayer gains a bonus on Bluff checks to feint equal to half her level.
Skill Ranks per Level 6 + Int modifier.
Skirmisher (Ex) Whenever you move more than 10 feet in a round and make an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If you make more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack.
Sneak Attack (Ex) If you can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from your attack, you can strike a vital spot for extra damage. [6d6]
Strong Impression You gain Intimidating Prowess as a bonus feat.
Surprise Follow-Through A skulking slayer can take the Surprise Follow-Through feat in place of a Rogue Talent
Trap Sense (Ex) You gain a +4 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps, and a +4 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps.
Underhanded Maneuvers (Ex) When she could normally make a sneak attack, a slayer may instead make a dirty trick or steal combat maneuver with a bonus on her roll. This bonus is equal to 0 for a dirty trick combat maneuver, or 0 for a steal combat maneuver.
Unexpected Charge (Ex) A skulking slayer can make a Bluff check to feint as a swift action before a charge.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency The skulking slayer gains proficiency with greatclubs and whips, but loses proficiency with rapiers and hand crossbows.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Rogues are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
It's before items though.
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I actually like the way that is looking, I would miss the thugs ability to boost the shaken condition to frightened, but could probably live without it.
As for does sneak attack need to be the focus? Not necessarily, but the handful of information I seeded this concept with was centered entirely around sneak attacks changing that is almost rebuilding from the ground up. Plus,sanctified slayer gets sneak attack slower, and I am trying to avoid ACG classes and archetypes recently since those are pretty much all I have played since the revised playtest came out. I know everyone hates rogue, and it isn't the most optimized route I can go, but it certainly is looking viable at the very least.
I f*$#ed up, I put points in Acrobatics which should have been in Bluff.
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You may still be very disappointed with a Rogue only build.
Your fellow players may be disappointed as well.
Are all Rogue levels somehow critical to meeting the concept?
I doubt that, as I play with role play focused groups, but appreciate the warning. I gave the basics I want to work with for this character, I am looking for advice that isn't "play a different class".
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I doubt that, as I play with role play focused groups, but appreciate the warning. I gave the basics I want to work with for this character, I am looking for advice that isn't "play a different class".You may still be very disappointed with a Rogue only build.
Your fellow players may be disappointed as well.
Are all Rogue levels somehow critical to meeting the concept?
I was, more or less, suggesting that not all your levels be in Rogue.
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I am considering dipping into either an abyssal or dragon bloodline bloodrager for level 6 to give me some bonuses to my weak saves and some lethal combat options for when non-lethal isn't gonna work (since my natural attacks work at full BAB). I am additionally thinking of Fate's Favored and Legacy of Sand for my traits to further bolster my saves. If I can figure out the formatting I will try to post a sample of what level 6 would look like.
I recently became aware of the Hurtful feat, which allows you to attack a foe you just intimidated as a swift action. It seems like almost a must for a build with Enforcer and a two handed weapon.
I really like Gang Up for sneak attack reliant PCs though it often works best if at least one PC has a mount or flying companion so that attack power can be highly concentrated. Speaking of pets, getting a flanking buddy with the menacing enchantment and Outflank feat could really change your chance to hit and maybe even allow you to achieve a lot of success with combat maneuvers.
If your DM allows Improved Familiar then a nuglub gremlin with the valet familiar archetype could be a fun buddy. If not then there might be some other ways to achieve the desired effect though I suspect most of the decent ones involve ACG material. The idea of a hulking brute with a big dog, evil gremlin, etc which helps him capture and enslave people seems fun to me.
If only the Huntmaster Cavalier could benefit from the Horse Master feat life would be great. I'm pretty sure it doesn't though. I think you'd qualify based on Animal Trainer(Ex) modifying rather than replacing Expert Trainer, but since you have an animal companion instead of a "mount" I'm not sure if the feat's benefit would apply.
Even if none of that appeals to you for this slaver it certainly gives me some ideas for my own PCs!
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Here is what I have planned so far:
Half-Orc Slaver Concept
Class: Rogue, Archetypes: Thug, Scout
LE Half-Orc
Traits: Fate's Favored, Legacy of Sand
Alternate Race Options: Sacred Tattoo, Chain Fighter, Skilled
17 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 10 CHA
Feat: Budgeoner, FCB: 1/6 rogue talent
Heavy Flail +3 (1d10+4 19-20/x2) +1d6 when sneak attacking, +6 intimidate
Level 2: 22 HP, 1 BAB, +5 fort, +7 ref, +3 will, 16 skill points
Rogue Talent: Feat (Toughness), FCB: 2/6 rogue talent
Mwk Heavy Flail +5 (1d10+4 19-20/x2) +1d6 when sneak attacking, +7 intimidate
Level 3: 30 HP, 2 BAB, +6 fort, +7 ref, +4 will, 24 skill points
Feat: Enforcer, FCB: 3/6 rogue talent
Mwk Heavy Flail +6 (1d10+4 19-20/x2) +2d6 when sneak attacking, +8 intimidate
Level 4: 39 HP, 3 BAB, +6 fort, +8 ref, +4 will, 32 skill points
Rogue Talent: Combat Trick (Sap Adept), +1 STR, FCB: 4/6 rogue talent
Mwk Heavy Flail +8 (1d10+6 19-20/x2) +2d6+4 when sneak attacking, +9 intimidate
Level 5: 48 HP, 3 BAB, +6 fort, +8 ref, +4 will, 40 skill points
Feat: Sap Master, FCB: 5/6 rogue talent
Mwk Heavy Flail +8 (1d10+6 19-20/x2) +6d6+6 when sneak attacking, +10 intimidate
Level 6: 57 HP, 4 BAB, +7 fort, +9 ref, +5 will, 48 skill points
Rogue Talent: Strong Impression, FCB: Rogue Talent: Feat (Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail)
Mwk Heavy Flail +10 (1d10+6 19-20/x2) +6d6+6 when sneak attacking, +15 intimidate
Should anything be moved around or does that seem okay? I tried to pick my traits and race options to make up for the rogues weak saves, the only equipment being factored in is the weapon.
Also, I am considering starting out as an Undead bloodline Bloodrager, I feel like the level 1 bloodline power works well with an intimidate build, it would also net me a few more hit points, rage, the ability to use bloodeager spell list wands, and a slightly better fort save. Any recommendations on archetypes? Will switch to an Earthbreaker if I dip bloodrager.
Edit: I also want to work Outflank and Hurtful in to this build at some point.
Remember sap Master only work if they are flatfootet. A.K.A until they act for the first time.
How do you get Toughness on a rogue talent at level 2. Isent feat an advanced talent? Dont give away your darkvision.
One level dip with BL is gonna be problematic since you most likely wont be able to rage more than one or 2 fights pr Day. Hunting the fun you get out of bloodrage.
I know this is not what you want to hear but this character looks like he should be a slayer. Pehaps the Bounty hunter archtype but i would go with a normal slayer. As it is now you spend a big part of your character resurses on somthing that will work if you attack the bad guys before your team is ready and you still fall short of the slayer.
Edit: i think you get 6d6+12 on sneek when you have sap Master.
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I bet you are right, I think it is a advanced feet and I just scrolled past that header without paying attention. So for the Slayer, they do not qualify for Sap Master until level 9 which is pretty late.
Scout's Charge lets you deal damage as if the enemy was flat-footed. Also plan on grabbing Dazzling Display and Shatter Defense at some point.
If I am adventuring with an all human party, there is no reason to have darkvision.
I missed the working on the scout archtype. Even if you hang around with humans being able to use your sneek attack in dim ligth is still great. Also remember that you can only take the same rogue talent once so feat or combat talent is a one time joy.
And just to get back to the slayer. He can power attack and hit a bit better than the not PAing rogue. He get better weapons. And more hit points. And he have good intimidate feats. I would take 2 points from con and boost int with 5. Your character concept seems to be a guy that can plan and stuff. And that will keep the skill points around the same on a slayer as on the rogue.
Good luck. Remember what you can do with the snake style, high AC, greater feint, sneek attack and Lots of AoOs.
Remember sap Master only work if they are flatfootet. A.K.A until they act for the first time.Or every time if you have enforcer + shatter defenses.
Yep ok it is a 3 step rocket but it is a good one. And also the. Scout stuff it seems.