I intend to have my Asmodean cleric claim territory in hell, and establish a powerbase there. In an attempt to better understand what I was getting into, I'm having talks with my GM, trying to clarify how the cosmology works an how mortals interact with the planes. During these talks, my GM told me that while there could be a myriad of complications, the main thing my character would have to do to get a domain in hell, is to lay claim to a piece of hell, and then be powerful/deceptive/resourceful enough to keep hold of it, when someone wants to take it away from you.
In addition to laying claims to territory, I intend to construct a stronghold to better defend said territory, and in order to do this, I'm thinking I'll be needing a small army of Petitioners as slaves.
How would you go about acquiring the manpower to catch and use a large amount of slaves, to construct you such a structure in hell, and how would you get the forces required to defend your domain from the greedy claws of other devils, who think they can muscle in on the "little mortal"'s territory?
Thanks in advance for your input and help.
-Nearyn
Get patron among the unimportant Nobles in hell have him help you built the place. When you are powerfull enough switch your alliences to some one a pit more powerfull and move on your old friend. And keep at it.
Dont break your word but dont promise what the nobles think you promise them.
In effect, take over someone elses organisation.
First step, move to Georgia.
Second step, learn to be the best fiddle player.
Now to be serious, you likely want to read up on the downtime, kingdom building, construction and organization formation sections of the Ultimate Campaign book. If you're a high-enough level the Leadership Feat can let you take on several dozen level 1 followers who can act as laborers for construction.
Also, consider entering a contract with a devil to transform yourself into one.
I'll repeat on this, read the resources that are available to provide the mechanics of what you want. Your GM will appreciate it when you have a background in the things you want to do so they don't have to play "This is what you can/should do to get X" with you either in the middle of or between sessions.
Considering that Hell is under the control of Asmodeus himself I think you are going to have some problem. Hell is Lawful Evil so there is probably not any unclaimed territory for you to claim. While you may be a cleric of Asmodeus the Archdevils are his vassals. They would probably take your claiming territory as an act of war. I doubt if he is going to want you starting a war in the middle of his kingdom. More than likely he would tell you to stop trying to cause problems and serve him on the material plane like you are supposed to.
@Cap. Darling: I'm making a note saying hostile take-over is a definite possibility. My character has the pride-drawback and is an unrepentant megalomaniac, which of course could affect how, and for whom, he'd be willing to bend the knee, but I can still see this idea working.
@Dafydd: I have actually thought favorably of being able to use the weapons abhorred by devil-kind, just to make a statement that I'm not willing to get stepped on. But this is all planning for the future, and the idea of a demi-plane is not a bad one, at all. I'm gonna look a bit more closely at what can be done with it, and how many resources I'd have to dedicate. The idea of bringing in creatures from other planes, mortals included, is not actually a bad one. After all, why would we who pride ourselves on our efficiency, limit ourselves in the weapons we use? Definitely noted.
@Westphalian_Musketeer: Thanks for the suggestion on the practical side of things. I completely agree with you, I'm going to do the research needed to minimize the effort my GM will have to spend on the nitty-gritty. In terms of contract, my soul is already signed away to my 'master', but the contract is full of loopholes, and he won't remain my master forever >:) I have plans in the works to attain a unique pit-fiend themed version of the half-fiend template, and transformation to full devilhood, could be an objective for later down the line.
@Mysterious Stranger: My GM informed me, while we were talking about hell in general, and approaching this topic, that all in all, Asmodeus is the lord and master of hell, and everyone in it. And the arch-fiends, each have a layer above Nessus, to call their own. But while they, in principle, have total rulership of their layers of hell (which is one of the aforementioned myriad of potential complications), they leave enough wiggle-room for the servants of Asmodeus to in-fight just enough to let the strong survive and the weak wither. So in terms of stepping on the toes of an arch-fiend, or gods-forbid it, Asmodeus himself, I don’t foresee enough of an issue to –not- try my hand, at cutting myself my own slice of hell :)
Aside from the excellent above ideas, two ways I thinking of acquiring my own force of the infernal host, was to either take one by force: basically showing myself as a fierce enough conqueror and Asmodean that I'd attract certain kinds of devils, and with their power at my side, I could then draw more?
The other idea was to buy my forces. My Asmodean is more than willing to risk the ire of Pharasma and the harrassment of her Psychopomps, if it means capturing souls to trade for power.
Any thoughts on these approaches? Any ideas of your own?
-Nearyn
1. If your plan is to not be Asmodeus' servant forever, I suggest you also read up on Mythic Characters, and start researching in-character on how Rovagug was sealed and imprisoned, or how Aroden died. (Coincidentally one of my homebrew ideas involves any number of extraplanar entities trying to find out/recreate either one of these in order to shake up the hierarchy.)
2. Your priest may be willing to risk Pharasman wrath, but Asmodeus most likely doesn't. Every single deity at least pays lip-service to Pharasma. (Except Rovagug, but he doesn't count because he's an imprisoned tool.) Pharasma controls the Boneyard, first stop of a mortal soul on its way to the outer planes. She decides a soul's final fate, and so acts as the dispensator of almost every single future extraplanar entity in the universe. If a god starts interrupting this process by trying to get more than is alotted by Pharasma (and by extension the decisions of mortals), the Lady of Graves has no issue with saying "You know what? No souls for you! I'm keeping them until you smarten up."
This would piss off Asmodeus by massive amounts. It'd piss off any of the gods by massive amounts.
Actual Footage of a Pissed Off Golarion God
If your intention is to trade souls for power, you're gonna have to take a cue from Asmodeus, with diabolic contracts. You will, as a lawful evil entity seeking to exert power over others, first have to whore* yourself out to any and all comers.
Lastly, as I understand it, Hell is basically a slice Asmodeus carved out of the Abyss and shaped to his perfect image of order. Perhaps to gain real estate you start carving out some more abyss and crushing it under your heel? Nothing says Grade-A Lawful Badass than overcoming the Abyss.
* = I use the word "whore" in this instance in order to appropriately set up the full extent of what your character is doing.
I gave the wrong impression. I do not mean to say that my Asmodean has any intention of forsaking Asmodeus, the thought would never cross his mind, but there is a backstory reason for this. What I meant was that my soul is chained by contract to the self-proclaimed 'most powerful asmodean on the continent'. The contract is a minor problem, for I have a dozen loopholes to choose from, to have it made null and void, but all in its own time. Eventually my 'master' will cease being useful, and I'll assume direct control of his assets. Before such a time though, I mean to prepare for failure, and that means consolidating my own power, in the material, as well as Hell.
My GM has given me no cause to believe that my god would interfere with me stealing/trading souls. In fact, they seem to be valuable currency in hell, with a hellish economy (in rough strokes) considering enslaved petitioners the equivalent of coins, and enslaved souls the equivalent of gemstones.
I'll ask my GM about hell being a bit of the Abyss that was beat into shape, and whether that could be a workable angle.
-Nearyn
Look at this from the Lawful aspect. To take control of any part of Hell you are either going to be taking over some other beings domain, or taking unclaimed land. Chances are any unclaimed land is has nothing worth claiming so you would be unable to build anything. Hell is the ultimate hierarchy so every creature has its place and knows it.
The one way it could work is if you were able to take territory from somewhere else and add it to hell. If you conquer part of another plane and have some way to make it part of hell, that would work. A Lawful Evil ruler is not going want to have his vassals overthrown. On the other hand he will gladly welcome new vassals if they enlarge his power.
The only other way would be to take out a major devil by yourself. Hell may have some sort of challenge that proves the right to rule. This would probably be some sort of personal challenge.
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Remember, you're evil, so you'll be using Russian Army at Stalingrad tactics. Commoners in front, warriors on/around the construct, adept in the back with a wand of Make Whole.
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You May want to do a bit of Reading about Stalingrad. You seem to confuse it with middelage warfare.
And wouldent a expert with UMD be better with that wand?( or a class with make whole on the class list)
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Remember, you're evil, so you'll be using Russian Army at Stalingrad tactics. Commoners in front, warriors on/around the construct, adept in the back with a wand of Make Whole.
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You May want to do a bit of Reading about Stalingrad. You seem to confuse it with middelage warfare.
And wouldent a expert with UMD be better with that wand?( or a class with make whole on the class list)Actually I was thinking the Imperium in Warhammer 40k, but used Stalingrad as a more accessible metaphor. Bullet-sponges in front with crap weapons, real soldiers behind pushing the peasants forward and protecting/using the heavy weapons (machine gun emplacements, artillery) and the heavy weapons themselves being the most expensive and protected item on the field.
I thought adept had it on their list, if not then expert with UMD. It would just be mending except that doesn't heal constructs. Custom magic items or a construct with fast healing would be best but most of those are harder to find or proper golems, and you want the flexibility of design that animated objects provide. A heavy Caisson for carrying the cannon or a burrowing Mole Machine that spits troops out where you want them to go or a bulldozer with a big shield in front providing total cover.
What you describe have nothing to do with the battle of Stalingrad, you may as well say saturday at Toys are Us. The other ideas Sound like somthing that could work in a movie but not in PF figthing devils.
What you describe have nothing to do with the battle of Stalingrad, you may as well say saturday at Toys are Us. The other ideas Sound like somthing that could work in a movie but not in PF figthing devils.Is there a reason for all this passive-aggression?
I mean, you're wrong, but this isn't the place for a history debate so it doesn't really matter. You're snippy little insults suggest this is personal for some obtuse reason.
Why are you pooping on the thread?
Sorry for making you feel attacked.
I was reacting mainly on your saying that evil warfare was the Way of the soviet army in Stalingrad. I Think if you do a bit of Reading on the subject you will agree with me that you were illinformed.And sorry to Nearyn for derailing his thread with history.
Side Note:
If you make a soul contract it may be wise to insert loopholes on purpose so you can have an imp spy to see whether or not the contractee is trying something fishy. That way you know when to hire assassins. Hint, Hint.