So I recently noticed that monsters with swallow whole could swallow up to a size category 1 less than the swallowing monster. I also realized that means gargantuan monsters with that ability can swallow a mammoth whole, and that same gargantuan monster that swallowed the mammoth can be swallowed by a colossal monster. That sounds pretty crazy, really.
"Realistically" speaking, how big would a colossal T-rex have to be to swallow a sperm whale?
How big would a colossal vortex dragon have to be to use its breath weapon and suck a kraken from a distance into its maw and then swallow it?
It seems like not many people have noticed this about swallow whole since I barely found anything about it by searching the boards.
What do you guys think about this? I think it's really cool to have monsters that massive in the game.
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Colossal have technically no limit, size wise.
Kaijus from Bestiary 4 (Godzilla, King Kong and the likes) are even bigger than colossal with their massive feature:
Massive (Ex) Because kaiju are so massive, uneven ground and other terrain features that form difficult terrain generally pose no significant hindrance to a kaiju's movement, though areas of forest or settlements are considered difficult terrain to a kaiju. A Huge or smaller creature can move through any square occupied by a kaiju, or vice-versa. A kaiju can make attacks of opportunity only against foes that are Huge or larger, and can be flanked only by Huge or larger foes. A kaiju gains a bonus for being on higher ground only if its entire space is on higher ground than that of its target. It's possible for a Huge or smaller creature to climb a kaiju—this generally requires a successful DC 30 check, and unlike the normal rules about kaiju and attacks of opportunity, a Small or larger creature that climbs on a kaiju's body provokes an attack of opportunity from the monster.
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An elephant for example (huge) has a stomach capacity of about 70 liters (about 18.5 gallons). That's not even remotely enough to fit a human. Now, the elephant has no swallow whole ability, and there are animals (but not mammals) that can swallow creatures their size or larger.
But I think the swallow whole rules are generally grossly exaggerated and should usually be corrected downwards at least one size category.
Each size category is still a pretty big range. Medium goes from 4' 60# to 8' 500#, quite a difference. I would expect most creatures with swallow whole to be on the larger end of their size category (although I don't have any idea if this is true or not) and if so, then swallowing an 'average' creature a size category lower doesn't seem so impossible.
"A typical triceratops is 30 feet long and weighs 20,000 pounds."
And on the same page of the Bestiary:
"The tyrannosaurus is an apex predator that measures 40 feet long and weighs 14,000 pounds."
And yet somehow the T-rex (Gargantuan) can swallow the triceratops (Huge) whole.
"A typical triceratops is 30 feet long and weighs 20,000 pounds."
And on the same page of the Bestiary:
"The tyrannosaurus is an apex predator that measures 40 feet long and weighs 14,000 pounds."
And yet somehow the T-rex (Gargantuan) can swallow the triceratops (Huge) whole.
to be fair, the t-rex used to be huge in 3.5. You could just apply the young template to better suit it to a real world t-rex.
I like to think of pathfinder t-rex as more of a fantasy titanic sized t-rex, anyway.It being 40' long is just fluff, as it could be nearly 100' long and it wouldn't really make a difference mechanically.
"A typical triceratops is 30 feet long and weighs 20,000 pounds."
And on the same page of the Bestiary:
"The tyrannosaurus is an apex predator that measures 40 feet long and weighs 14,000 pounds."
And yet somehow the T-rex (Gargantuan) can swallow the triceratops (Huge) whole.
Shrug. Somehow snakes manage to swallow other snakes that are the same size as they are. In the real world. It's not unusual to see a snake eat a mammal that weighs more than it does (although it's typically smaller in terms of length). "Swallow whole" is a special ability that not all creatures have, and the creatures that have it are therefore unusual in some way.
An elephant is a huge creature but doesn't have swallow whole. A t-rex -- well, the next time I watch a Golarion t-rex (T. rex paizoiensis) eat, I'll take notes about whether or not it has sufficient jaw flexibility to down a Triceratops horridus golarionis.
I've read The Little Prince, a small (snake) creature can swallow a huge (elephant) creature.
I saw a T-rex swallow whole a Great Cyclops in gameplay.
"Realistically" speaking, how big would a colossal T-rex have to be to swallow a sperm whale?
Realistically, as others have noted, what's realistic depends on the sort of creature.
Of course if we're really being realistic here, there's an upper limit to real life animal sizes for good reason. The bigger an animal is, the thicker and thicker its bones need to be in order to avoid them breaking under the weight of the animal's own mass. Whales can get truly big because the physics of water counteracts the crushing force of gravity somewhat; I'm not sure what the record for biggest land animal is, but it's sure to have truly massive bones; and fliers can't even approach that record because they require a longer and longer wingspan just to take off.
And realistically...
If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed.
Well, er, like so many things in PF/D&D, realism just doesn't apply. If I swallowed a mouse, which then managed to gnaw its way out of my throat, I'm pretty sure I would die horribly. Not have to go on a liquids diet until someone wrapped a bandage around my neck.
It's not quite as hilarious as the 'muscular action' that 3.0 and 3.5 creatures with the SH ability use to regenerate gaping throat wounds, but PF's is still far out in fantasy land. :)
A hole in your throat isn't instantly lethal, or tracheotomies wouldn't work, though the 'mouse method' isn't commonly recommended. And wrapping a bandage around your neck isn't going to heal all the hit point damage. And you're not a creature with 'Swallow Whole'. If you were you could swallow a fairly large dog, which implies you'd have a completely different body. Anything that can swallow whole has to be thought of as weird and stretchy.
"A typical triceratops is 30 feet long and weighs 20,000 pounds."
And on the same page of the Bestiary:
"The tyrannosaurus is an apex predator that measures 40 feet long and weighs 14,000 pounds."
And yet somehow the T-rex (Gargantuan) can swallow the triceratops (Huge) whole.Shrug. Somehow snakes manage to swallow other snakes that are the same size as they are. In the real world. It's not unusual to see a snake eat a mammal that weighs more than it does (although it's typically smaller in terms of length). "Swallow whole" is a special ability that not all creatures have, and the creatures that have it are therefore unusual in some way.
An elephant is a huge creature but doesn't have swallow whole. A t-rex -- well, the next time I watch a Golarion t-rex (T. rex paizoiensis) eat, I'll take notes about whether or not it has sufficient jaw flexibility to down a Triceratops horridus golarionis.
Snakes (or at least corn snakes) that eat another snake of roughly their own size end up dead, though. The other snake is too much for their system. They are still a great example of swallow whole, though. I've had one of mine since it was a teeny tiny thing of a few weeks, and there was no way in hell that newborn baby mouse was going to fit... and then he ate it.
What's interesting is that snakes in pathfinder don't have swallow whole...
"Realistically" speaking, how big would a colossal T-rex have to be to swallow a sperm whale?Realistically, as others have noted, what's realistic depends on the sort of creature.
Of course if we're really being realistic here, there's an upper limit to real life animal sizes for good reason. The bigger an animal is, the thicker and thicker its bones need to be in order to avoid them breaking under the weight of the animal's own mass. Whales can get truly big because the physics of water counteracts the crushing force of gravity somewhat; I'm not sure what the record for biggest land animal is, but it's sure to have truly massive bones; and fliers can't even approach that record because they require a longer and longer wingspan just to take off.
And realistically...
If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed.Well, er, like so many things in PF/D&D, realism just doesn't apply. If I swallowed a mouse, which then managed to gnaw its way out of my throat, I'm pretty sure I would die horribly. Not have to go on a liquids diet until someone wrapped a bandage around my neck.
It's not quite as hilarious as the 'muscular action' that 3.0 and 3.5 creatures with the SH ability use to regenerate gaping throat wounds, but PF's is still far out in fantasy land. :)
ROFLMAO anyway if you are being realistic you would live quite awhile if a mouse cut its way out of your stomach in unbelievable pain true maybe unconscious most of the time but its like getting shot in the stomach you would live for quite awhile. Do that to an animal watch what they do they either attack or flee and that's all about being the GM and making a convincing combat. As to the size of a t-rex in pathfinder it is supposedly 40 ft long a t-rex is bipedal and 40 ft long including the tail a triceratops is 30 feet long and a quadruped including the tail. So if you are a 40 ft long biped why couldn't you fit a 30 ft quadruped in your stomach, in one piece it does seem unlikely but heh why not. You might look like Luffy from one piece after eating a pile of meat but i think it is just funny as all hell.
A hole in your throat isn't instantly lethal, or tracheotomies wouldn't work, though the 'mouse method' isn't commonly recommended. And wrapping a bandage around your neck isn't going to heal all the hit point damage. And you're not a creature with 'Swallow Whole'. If you were you could swallow a fairly large dog, which implies you'd have a completely different body. Anything that can swallow whole has to be thought of as weird and stretchy.
It's pretty hard to breathe with a hole in your throat without the aid of modern medicine and highly-specialized medical supplies, don't you think? Doesn't matter how weird or stretchy your throat is -- once the hole is there, you're not long for this world.
Now regeneration would solve this problem, but the SW ability clearly doesn't assume regeneration. And besides, regen opens a whole new can of reality worms!
The game just ain't realistic in a real-world sense.
Why are people talking about humans swallowing mice? People do not have swallow whole. I was just bringing up the fact that you can have a bipedal colossal saurian that swallows whales and mammoths according to RAW.
Why are people talking about humans swallowing mice? People do not have swallow whole. I was just bringing up the fact that you can have a bipedal colossal saurian that swallows whales and mammoths according to RAW.
The game just ain't realistic in a real-world sense.