Hex channeler, best channeler?


Rules Questions


So I was reading through the archetypes of the ACG, when I found this little gem of what I assume is ignorance.

Channel energy, pg. 132 of ACG wrote:

At 2nd level, a hex channeler can call upon her patron to release a wave of energy from herself or her familiar. A good witch channels positive energy (like a good cleric), and an evil witch channels negative energy (like an evil cleric). A witch who is neither good nor evil must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy; once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed.

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the witch. The witch can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). This otherwise functions as a cleric using channel energy, except the witch does not require a holy symbol to use this ability. The hex channeler uses her witch level as her cleric level for all other effects dependent upon channel energy (except increasing the amount of damage healed or dealt). The hex channeler can choose whether or not to include herself or her familiar in this effect.

This burst heals or deals 1d6 points of damage. Every time the hex channeler is able to learn a new hex (including major or grand hexes), she can instead increase her channel energy amount by 1d6.

Now here's the abuse:the extra hex feat. You can take it multiple times, and as the bold shows, every time the hex channeler is able to learn a new hex, they can instead gain 1d6 of channel energy. As there is no limiter, such as max of 10d6, you can get a max of 19d6 channel energy.

Am I reading it wrong, or can you actually get 19d6 channeling with this archetype?


I mean sure, you can give up all your feats and hexes to channel energy for a high amount.

Since healing is usually done via CLW stick I feel that using up all your feats and hexes to make it a very large amount isn't that big of a deal...as all you've really done is reduced the time required to heal.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The most interesting part about this archetype is choosing a variant channel since those bonuses are level based not dice based.


Onyxlion wrote:
The most interesting part about this archetype is choosing a variant channel since those bonuses are level based not dice based.

I'm not sure a witch can even use a variant channel. It doesn't really make much sense to me since a witch's power is arcane based, while Variant Channel specifically relates to your deity's portfolio (not domains).

Of course, there are a lot of problems with variant channeling and that seciton of optional rules was rather poorly written and edited.

Edit: Actually, it seems that witch's cannot based on:

Quote:
A character who has the channel energy ability from a class other than cleric may use these variant channeling rules if the class's abilities are tied to serving a deity. For example, paladins can select alternative channeling abilities if they serve a deity, as can oracles with the Life mystery (as they serve many deities), but necromancer wizards cannot.

A witch's power is not tied to serving a deity so they cannot use variant channeling.


Witches have patrons and nothing saying you can't serve one.


Onyxlion wrote:
Witches have patrons and nothing saying you can't serve one.

Worshiping a deity is not the equivalent of deriving power from a deity, and patrons are vague. Nothing says they are deities. It is not clear what patrons are or how they work really.

In short, no. I see no evidence to support that a witch's power in any way derived from a deific source, especially not tied to serving a deity.


19d6 gets you what, 66.5 average damage? Save for half. And then you have spells like Horrid Wilting that do CLd6 in a 30 foot radius (well, living creatures no more than 60 feet apart but same thing), max 20d6. Also save for half, but it comes with the possibility of metamagic and is also on the witch's list. Also, witches are Int-based casters, unless the archetype changed that Cha is not a priority, hurting the per day uses and save for channel energy.

Scarab Sages

Though what you can do is grab the Prestige Class Envoy of Balance for 4 levels to get the ability to channel both positive and negative energy. Reduces your total Channeling to 17d6, but you can grab a headband to bring it back up.


Claxon wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
Witches have patrons and nothing saying you can't serve one.

Worshiping a deity is not the equivalent of deriving power from a deity, and patrons are vague. Nothing says they are deities. It is not clear what patrons are or how they work really.

In short, no. I see no evidence to support that a witch's power in any way derived from a deific source, especially not tied to serving a deity.

Sorry but if Oracles can choose to serve, note it says serve not derive, then so can witches.

Edit: IMO the statement is saying if you have the channel energy ability and you want to serve a deity then you can gain this variant channel instead.


Onyxlion wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
Witches have patrons and nothing saying you can't serve one.

Worshiping a deity is not the equivalent of deriving power from a deity, and patrons are vague. Nothing says they are deities. It is not clear what patrons are or how they work really.

In short, no. I see no evidence to support that a witch's power in any way derived from a deific source, especially not tied to serving a deity.

Sorry but if Oracles can choose to serve, note it says serve not derive, then so can witches.

You can choose to serve, but your abilities are not tied to that choice. Oracles and witches cannot variant channel going strictly by the book.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

One level dip, and Extra Hex after that.

Could work with a specialized build.


It says that oracles can in the variant channel section, and since that was before hex channeler I see no reason they couldn't do the same.


Onyxlion wrote:
It says that oracles can in the variant channel section, and since that was before hex channeler I see no reason they couldn't do the same.

Seems like a contradiction, but I take it back. I suppose one could say that the oracle is serving one or more deities whether she likes it or not. However, oracles explicitly get their powers from deities. Hex channelers do not. So expect table variance dependent on whether or not your patron happens to be a deity.

Grand Lodge

TheBulletKnight wrote:

So I was reading through the archetypes of the ACG, when I found this little gem of what I assume is ignorance.

Channel energy, pg. 132 of ACG wrote:

At 2nd level, a hex channeler can call upon her patron to release a wave of energy from herself or her familiar. A good witch channels positive energy (like a good cleric), and an evil witch channels negative energy (like an evil cleric). A witch who is neither good nor evil must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy; once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed.

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the witch. The witch can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). This otherwise functions as a cleric using channel energy, except the witch does not require a holy symbol to use this ability. The hex channeler uses her witch level as her cleric level for all other effects dependent upon channel energy (except increasing the amount of damage healed or dealt). The hex channeler can choose whether or not to include herself or her familiar in this effect.

This burst heals or deals 1d6 points of damage. Every time the hex channeler is able to learn a new hex (including major or grand hexes), she can instead increase her channel energy amount by 1d6.

Now here's the abuse:the extra hex feat. You can take it multiple times, and as the bold shows, every time the hex channeler is able to learn a new hex, they can instead gain 1d6 of channel energy. As there is no limiter, such as max of 10d6, you can get a max of 19d6 channel energy.

Am I reading it wrong, or can you actually get 19d6 channeling with this archetype?

The things I like about this ability are you can channel via your familiar and you do not need a holy symbol.


blahpers wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
It says that oracles can in the variant channel section, and since that was before hex channeler I see no reason they couldn't do the same.
Seems like a contradiction, but I take it back. I suppose one could say that the oracle is serving one or more deities whether she likes it or not. However, oracles explicitly get their powers from deities. Hex channelers do not. So expect table variance dependent on whether or not your patron happens to be a deity.

Indeed, Oracles are explicitly mentioned. However I think that was a stupid design decision anyways, channel variant are supposed to be tied to a deity's portfolio. Oracles do not derive power from a specific deity and I don't think they should be allowed to take variant channel, but they are explicitly allowed and so I would need to house rule it. However, since only Life Oracles pick up channel anyways it's not too big a deal.

But Hex Channelers are witches. There power is in no way tied to a deity, and to me, will never qualify for variant channeling.

Scarab Sages

Of course, what you can do is go for the Hex Channeler dip as a support to the Life Oracle or Healing Cleric..

If you start the witch at an even level, you can obtain the channel energy, as well as the odd level feat for Extra Hex, when you reach the odd level. It may not seem effective, but if you obtain the Phylactery of Positive Channeling, you get 3+CHA/day channel at 4d6.

The drawback is a lower overall Spell level cap, but you do get a familiar (suggesting the +4 initiative option)) and if your Intelligence is at 11, some arcane spellcasting (though Arcane Spell Failure chance).

So for a Cleric 5/Witch 2 with 20 Charisma and the headband, that would be 8/day - 5d6 channel and 8/day - 4d6 channel. If you have spare General Feats and continue with Cleric, you can evenly scale both your channels.


Claxon wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:
It says that oracles can in the variant channel section, and since that was before hex channeler I see no reason they couldn't do the same.
Seems like a contradiction, but I take it back. I suppose one could say that the oracle is serving one or more deities whether she likes it or not. However, oracles explicitly get their powers from deities. Hex channelers do not. So expect table variance dependent on whether or not your patron happens to be a deity.

Indeed, Oracles are explicitly mentioned. However I think that was a stupid design decision anyways, channel variant are supposed to be tied to a deity's portfolio. Oracles do not derive power from a specific deity and I don't think they should be allowed to take variant channel, but they are explicitly allowed and so I would need to house rule it. However, since only Life Oracles pick up channel anyways it's not too big a deal.

But Hex Channelers are witches. There power is in no way tied to a deity, and to me, will never qualify for variant channeling.

Only Life Oracles? You mean any Spirit Guide Oracle who picks up Life Spirit at the start of the day. Of course you could combine that with Life Mystery Oracle for (1+CHA) + (3+CHA) uses of Channel daily. Which you can use with something like the Hangover Cleric build...

Scarab Sages

Now with that, here is a new question:

If you take the Life Link Revelation, and then use the Spirit Guide's Wandering Spirit to get the Life Link Hex, can you make it where you can heal an ally for 10 Hit Points per round?

Scarab Sages

No, becuase the shaman's life spirit ability, though it has the same name, sucks and only works when the allies are at negative HP.

I'm a little sore on that particular point. Sorry.


If he was in negative hp's maybe, but Choo is right, Shamans life link is bunk.


I'm holding out hope that it's intended to be Oracle Life Link and they somehow accidentally messed up the text and will soon issue a comprehensive errata for the ACG, correcting this and numerous other issues.

...It could happen, right? Right?


Oh, also undead lord using Varaint Undeath channeling blows this guy out of the water still when channeling to heal:

Level 20 Witch with 19d6 Channel = 66.5 average (114 maximum)
Level 20 Undead Lord with Variant Undeath does 10d6x2 maximized for 120 every time.

Of course your party needs negative energy affinity for this to work, but he has significantly less resources sunk in than the witch and wins, by nearly double on average. It's actually highly ironic to me that the undead lord is the best healer in the game, and can often do so while destroying his enemies at the same time, making combat healing much more effective.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Hex channeler, best channeler? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions