Hi,
as I always liked the concept of the war-priest I really looked forward to this class... and got disappointed.
One of the signature abilities of the warpriest is the sacred weapon, but let's take a look what does it do (and compare it to similar abilities):
Sacred Weapon
1. It increase the base damage of the weapon:
it starts at 1d6 and then reached 1d8 at 5th level till the 9th level etc.
Ok, so basically before the 10th level this part of the ability does nothing, because let's face it: you are are warpriest with martial weapon proficiency, so if you took a martial one-hand weapon you are already at 1d8.
If you build a two-hand weapon warpriest (e.g. warpriest of Gorum), this part of the ability kick in at 20th level.
2. At 4th level it allows you to boost your weapon (+1 at 4th, +2 at 8th level) for lvl/rounds per day.
Let's compare this time to the ability of a Paladin or Magus..
Paladin: 1min/level upt to 4 times per day (at level 20)
Magus: 1min per arcana pool (~16 times without any items, feats etc.)
On top of this the warpriest have to have a weapon focus with the weapon to use this ability while Magus and Paladin can use it on every weapon they wield.
Did I miss something or is there something off with this ability?
On a site note:
I really like the idea of the warpriest, but I think they wanted to put to many abilities into it without creating new, unique mechanics, let's face it: Fevor is a weaker lay on hands, Blessings are domains without spells (and a later major power) and channel energy.. also same only weaker :(
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I had built a Tengu Warpriest with two claws and a bite. The free weapon focus went to Claws. That means the claws were doing 1d6 each instead of 1d3 each. Additionally, as a Warpriest of Desna I can use a Starknife and it also does 1d6 instead of 1d4 as my ranged weapon. At higher levels I'd be selecting Weapon Focus on the Bite as well, this gives me 3 natural attacks with scaling damage, full BAB and Strength bonus on damage.
Not everyone selects their Deity based on the Favored Weapon, some people actually like a specific Deity for the flavor of that Deity, regardless of such things.
Fervor is WAY better then Lay on Hands, you can use it to swift action cast self buffs and not provoke AOOs. Also, Warpriests aren't restricted to Lawful Good.
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Or choose uncommon weapons that normally only do 1d3 or 1d4 damage. Sacred Weapon allows a plethora of weapons to become viable choices and allows for many more weapon themed character concepts than any other class.
Go ahead and whine about it being suboptimal. Many people do and will. But opening character concepts up without having to cringe every time you roll a d4 is priceless to those players that want to roleplay over rollplay.
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Was that supposed to be a good thing?
The main issue with this ability, (well outside of it being pretty wonky, like why don't Fighter's have it), is that it mechanically incentivizes characters to pick weapons/deities that really have no business having "war-priests", while not benefitting those deity's whose warrior-ish weapons either until very late or not at all.
It would have been a much better design, in my opinion, to have the extra damage be an either or option, either increasing the damage for normally poorer choice weapons or giving a different bonus for normally better choice weapons. So a Bastard Sword, Greatsword, etc. . . might just get a straight +1 Sacred/Profane bonus to attacks and damage instead of the increased damage that it doesn't benefit from.
It also does some really wonky things, like making whips, unarmed strikes, and kukris extremely good options without accounting for the normal cost or trade-off that these weapons would normally have to balance them out, (need an extra Feat, or they cost more, different Proficiency).
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Seeing that combat styles of various gods are a thing since Inner Sea Combat (referring everybody to the faithful combat section), I'm sure a lot of warpriests are more than happy in replicating their gods fighting style with their favored weapon without having to use suboptimal weapons damage.
People act as if warpriests don't have anything, swift action buffs early in the game are frankly all you need. The swift action buffs have always been the problem of Battle Cleric, early on in the game, you couldn't buff yourself fast enough and when combat ends in a couple of rounds, spending rounds to buff was essentially ended before you even reach the enemies.
The point is to equalize all of the favored weapons.
Magus don't have as many to-hit and to-damage buff spells as the cleric does. You're forgetting that half of the equation.
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The point is to equalize all of the favored weapons.
But it doesn't. What it actually does is make weapons that are balanced against poor damage but better other properties, (range, reach, high crit or multiplier, trip, or whatever) the best options. It doesn't make the others worse per se, (and it's only technically not a penalty), like the Longsword or Greatsword, it just does not give them any advantage or benefits, while sometimes actually removes the benefits those "better" weapons have over others, and basically does the exact opposite of what it should to reinforce the theme and flavor of the class. The one thing it does not do, though, is to equalize <favored or not> weapons.
Magus don't have as many to-hit and to-damage buff spells as the cleric does. You're forgetting that half of the equation.
The Magus actually does and better, but they also do not have the same issue with hitting that the Warpriest can. The game rewards offense over defense massively, and so while a Warpriest can be fairly close to a Magus defensively, they are no where close to them offensively. They can nova everything a few times to get in the ballpark of basically any of the Battle Cleric, Fighter, Magus, Battle Oracle, Inquisitor, Paladin, or even Druid, but they are still less effective, and in almost every single case, (and to varying degrees) far worse off out of combat than any of those, (which the idea was it would fit in somewhere amongst flavor and theme wise).
The basic idea, the premise and promise was that the Warpriest would be a blend of Cleric and Fighter and be a mash up similar to the Magus is for Fighter and Wizard. It really doesn't in any way do this. What it actually does, is make a Monk cry, (especially after all the garbage with Brass knuckles), and give us this weird sort of subpar "exotic" weapon master thing.
Remeber that you can use Sacred Weapon on two kinds of weapons, unless you pick weapon focus in the favoured weapon. It's a good way to not force Warpriests to pick the "best" weapon.
Yes, a Greatsword does have better base damage, but will you always be using it? Any other class would have to, you can't afford to enchant more than one weapon good.
Some of the weapon enhancments wouldn't be worth spending money on either. With Sacred Weapon you can get Ghost Touch when you really need it and not spend money on a situational enhancment.
Sacred Weapon is also very good for TWF, giving light weapons 1d8 damage at level 4. And again, you would only have to enchant one of the weapons with money.Fervor doesn't heal as much as Lay On Hands, but don't forget that Fevor lets you cast spells as swift action.
And Blessings are swift actions, unlike many domain abilities, making them more usable in combat.
Well only till you get Dual Enhancement. It is a feat that allows you to add bonuses to both hand weapons.
Not to mention it's nice to stick sacred weapon's damage on a weapon that otherwise has low dice but a good threat range. I could see dual-wielding kukris as being pretty nifty with this ability, for example.
Not to mention it's nice to stick sacred weapon's damage on a weapon that otherwise has low dice but a good threat range. I could see dual-wielding kukris as being pretty nifty with this ability, for example.
I have played a Warpriest of Cayden that used Kukris and added Keen to his weapons and had to buy one for his other. Dual Enhancement will be something I pick up now because you do not need to waste gold if you do not want too. Picking up Improved Critical made this a very sweet combo. Image level 20 dealing 2d8 with a crit threat range of 15-20 x2 on top of the enhancements you can throw on as a bonus.
I had built a Tengu Warpriest with two claws and a bite. The free weapon focus went to Claws. That means the claws were doing 1d6 each instead of 1d3 each. Additionally, as a Warpriest of Desna I can use a Starknife and it also does 1d6 instead of 1d4 as my ranged weapon. At higher levels I'd be selecting Weapon Focus on the Bite as well, this gives me 3 natural attacks with scaling damage, full BAB and Strength bonus on damage.
Take Apsu as your god and you get bite as your favored weapon. That lets you get increased damage from first.
I had built a Tengu Warpriest with two claws and a bite. The free weapon focus went to Claws. That means the claws were doing 1d6 each instead of 1d3 each. Additionally, as a Warpriest of Desna I can use a Starknife and it also does 1d6 instead of 1d4 as my ranged weapon. At higher levels I'd be selecting Weapon Focus on the Bite as well, this gives me 3 natural attacks with scaling damage, full BAB and Strength bonus on damage.Take Apsu as your god and you get bite as your favored weapon. That lets you get increased damage from first.
Tengu can have claws at 1st level also, and it's more beneficial to get sacred weapon off two claws than one bite.
Tengu can have claws at 1st level also, and it's more beneficial to get sacred weapon off two claws than one bite.I had built a Tengu Warpriest with two claws and a bite. The free weapon focus went to Claws. That means the claws were doing 1d6 each instead of 1d3 each. Additionally, as a Warpriest of Desna I can use a Starknife and it also does 1d6 instead of 1d4 as my ranged weapon. At higher levels I'd be selecting Weapon Focus on the Bite as well, this gives me 3 natural attacks with scaling damage, full BAB and Strength bonus on damage.Take Apsu as your god and you get bite as your favored weapon. That lets you get increased damage from first.
I think you misunderstood. Drake Brimstone was talking about getting weapon focus (bite) at later levels and I was pointing out that you could have both claws AND bite at first. I wasn't saying to take just bite.
I see the point for warpriest of deities with "non-optimal" weapons or some "niche weapon builds".
My problem is that this ability is totally worthless for warpriests of martial oriented dieties (like Gorum or Immodea (during the first levels)).
I think some "sacred weapon training" would have been much better here (like the figthers weapon training but only for favored weapons/focus weapons) with this all warpriest could beneft from this ability.
Regarding the duration of the enchantment buff: Valid point Dispari Scuro
I agree with it unless it's a signature ability (like the Paladins Smite Evil, Druids Wild Shape or Barbarian Rage).
From my point of view as the class is called WARpriest every ability which dirctly influnce the combat power should be a signature ability and that is why I got a little bit disappointed about it.
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Go ahead and whine about it being suboptimal. Many people do and will. But opening character concepts up without having to cringe every time you roll a d4 is priceless to those players that want to roleplay over rollplay.
Oooh, good, Stormwind Fallacy, badwrongfun, and condescention, all in one post!
Honestly this ability to to make it so that Warpriest does not end up like the magus... EVERYONE running around with Scimitars...
Rounds/level doesn't really make sense for a class who is supposed to be more favored weapon than all other characters with favored weapon. And it's an enhancement bonus, so not much stacking. So it appears to me the real purpose of the ability, which is a swift action, is if you get dispelled, or if your main weapon gets sundered and you have to break out the spare for a round for two.
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Honestly this ability to to make it so that Warpriest does not end up like the magus... EVERYONE running around with Scimitars...
Scimitar is still one of the best choices. Hits like a longsword by level 5, and has that crit range you want. So no, not everyone will choose the same weapon, but this ability just takes even more focus away from the base damage.