Is my exploiter wizard correctly OP, or could it be more OP?


Advice


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This is just a simple first-level build. Exploiter Wizard, human, 20 point buy.

Stats: All 10s except DEX 15, CON 13, INT 18.

Trait: Magical Lineage (focus: Magic Missile)

Feats: Toppling Metamagic, Extra Exploit

Exploits: Potent Magic, Energy Shield

If I've done this correctly, at first level I can cast Toppling Magic Missile and activate Potent Magic, so that I get two missiles per casting, and after inflicting damage, each missile will initiate a trip attack at +7 to the roll (3 for caster level thanks to Potent Magic, and 4 from INT).

I think that's extremely useful and helpful to a party -- on balance, possibly as good as Sleep, since it not only disables some enemies, but hurts them too. And it has no HD cap.

My question is: what did I miss? I understand that exploiter wizards are overpowered, but I maybe don't understand how much. Am I missing the forest for all the trees? Is this a situation where you all see me building this and pat me on the head and say, "Nice try kiddo, but that is totally underpowered compared to what you COULD do."

If I have failed to apply my exploits well, can you explain how to do it better? Note that I play in PFS so I don't really care about anything over level 11. I want to be good at levels 1-10 mostly.


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You forgot to dump strength and charisma and push your int to 20. Then put both dex and con at 14. The low carrying capacity is a little rough at low level, but thats why God created Ant Haul.

Also, exploiter wizards (probably) don't qualify for extra exploit, so expect table variation there. Instead take spell specialization and magic missile is always 2, and you can push it to 3 missiles, with a +10 to trip. Best part is, at higher levels you can change the spell it applies to.


Thank you! That does seem more broken!


I guess I'd question if toppling is the most OP way to build an exploiter wizard. I'd think there would be a build that could break the game even more and still be PFS friendly.


I personally think Dimensionnal Slide is way better than Energy Sheild, and I'm playing an Arcanist right now where it's the most useful trick I have (and so cheap).

Shadow Lodge

I took Quick Study over Dimensional Slide (Energy Shield seems like a bit of a woeful choice in comparison).

Not sure how useful Dimensional Slide is in practice.

Shadow Lodge

Exploiter Wizards absolutely qualify for Extra Exploit.

Extra Arcanist Exploit wrote:

Prerequisite: Arcanist exploit† class feature.

Benefit: You gain one additional arcanist exploit. You must meet the prerequisites for this arcanist exploit.

Edit: OK, Exploiter Wizard does call it "Exploiter Exploit", but if a GM told me they didn't allow it, it'd be a table I'd happily walk away from. I mean, that's still a pretty extreme call.

Grand Lodge

I don't have my ACG with me, but what is the text from Exploiter Exploit?


Exploiter Exploit: At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter,
the exploiter wizard gains a single arcanist exploit (see
page 9). The exploiter wizard uses his wizard level as his
arcanist level for determining the effects and DCs of his
arcanist exploits. This ability replaces arcane school.

Shadow Lodge

My guess is they used the language that way because it would create confusion to call it "Arcanist Exploit" on a class that isn't an arcanist. I'm not sure if there is another precedent like this on a class feature that has its class name in it.

If there was a limit on the class, it would actively say "arcanist level 1st", like many other feats do.

Both Exploiter Exploit and Arcanist Exploit function in exactly the same way.


and the primalist bloodrager sets a precedent in saying that the rage power it gets via trading aren't counted as having the rage power class feature for feats and such


Its PFS though, so RAW id rule. Generally, they rename things like that so they don't work together. Several fighter archetypes rename Weapon Training just so they don't function with gloves of dueling. Some keep it the same, even though its very clearly not exactly equivalent. Its a design decision.

I'd say about half the PFS GM's I know wouldn't let it work without a FAQ, because every other ability written that way doesn't work. If half the tables you sit at it will probably get bunked, why cause yourself a headache?

It is certainly RAW, and I suspect RAI, though I'm not a dev and the ACG has enough ambiguity that I wouldn't be surprised if something slipped through.

Shadow Lodge

AndIMustMask wrote:
and the primalist bloodrager sets a precedent in saying that the rage power it gets via trading aren't counted as having the rage power class feature for feats and such

That isn't the same thing - the ability specifically says that it doesn't count for feats and such. Exploiter Exploit has no such wording.

Primal Choices wrote:
At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements.


Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:

You forgot to dump strength and charisma and push your int to 20. Then put both dex and con at 14. The low carrying capacity is a little rough at low level, but thats why God created Ant Haul.

Also, exploiter wizards (probably) don't qualify for extra exploit, so expect table variation there. Instead take spell specialization and magic missile is always 2, and you can push it to 3 missiles, with a +10 to trip. Best part is, at higher levels you can change the spell it applies to.

Totally agree: Masterwork Backpack of Heavyload (Belt) (current magical item) and Muleback Cords (current magical item) = 3,050g to increase carrying capacity of your 8 strength wizard from:

26 lbs. or less // 27–53 lbs. // 54–80 lbs.
to:
260 lbs. or less // 261–521 lbs. // 522–780 lbs.

No more issue with carrying capacity after the first few levels.


Avatar-1 wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
and the primalist bloodrager sets a precedent in saying that the rage power it gets via trading aren't counted as having the rage power class feature for feats and such

That isn't the same thing - the ability specifically says that it doesn't count for feats and such. Exploiter Exploit has no such wording.

Primal Choices wrote:
At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements.

that's exactly what i was saying. it doesnt have that wording, so it may very well count as arcanist exploit for feats and such (merely rebranded to avoid player/GM confusion)


IMO, exploiter wizard isn't OP for PFS compared to any number of other wizard builds. You have to spend multiple exploits just to replicate class features that specialist wizards get for free and you don't get the specialist bonus spells.

Silver Crusade

There's already an FAQ about the different versions of weapon training. Why not read the wording of that FAQ and apply it to exploiter exploits versus arcanist exploits.

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