Hey, I was looking through spells and just was wondering the 'fluff' part of fireball and found an interesting idea for countering fireball without counterspell. I was just wondering if rules wise it would be OK? I'd definitely allow it in my game since it's creative.
So let's start with the spell's description....
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DESCRIPTION
A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
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Now say your a fighter with a shield and you ready an action that if the wizard is going to throw a fireball your preparing to "intercept" or have it go off prematurely.
Now I guess you could say that if the fighter wasn't trained in spell craft he wouldn't know, but I'm kind of going off the example that wizard has fireballed once already or you've met this guy in the past(BBEG) or something similar. For sake of argument lets assume the fighter is able to identify that the mage is pulling out Bat Gauno yet again and a bit of sulfur....
I think such an action could be quiet dramatic. :) Opinions?
Edit: What would you make the AC to hit this? I'm sure I wouldn't make it too easy but I wouldn't put it in the range of impossibility.... i'd say AC20 or so would be fitting for a small orb of fire?
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There isn't a size category smaller than Fine which is < 6". So it's RAW AC would be 18. However, I'd say something less than 1/2" could have a higher AC so 20 would perfectly acceptable for a home game. It's definitely legal to "ready an attack on the pea-sized fireball as soon as the wizard casts it".
I believe this is legal, but you would have to ready an action to do it.
There are any number of ways to counter a spell without using a counterspell. Attacking the spellcaster, distracting him, silencing him (assuming you can get silence down from a full-round action), and blocking line of sight/effect.
Frankly, the moment a party sees there is a powerful enemy spellcaster there should be someone with a readied action to prevent him from getting a spell off.
I wouldn't allow it with most shields... they do not count as an obstruction, any more then the person wielding them does.
But I'd certainly consider it if they had a tower shield... as that can provides cover and you can define an edge of your square to be treated as a solid wall which could therefore perhaps 'intercept' the fireball.
I don't think he's trying to put up a wall. He's trying to swing and hit the little bead of fire with his weapon to detonate it early. He basically wants to play baseball. It should be difficult, but not impossible. AC 20 sounds about right, not to mention that he would need to ready an action to pull this off, and he's still going to take the fireball damage himself.
I don't see a problem with intercepting the fireball in the prescribed manner you indicate.
HOWEVER, Spellcraft check should be required, it's why the skill exists in the first place.
Spellcraft is more than realizing what components they are pulling out, though that IS part of it.. It's also about the gestures and understanding the techincal art of casting a spell. Not only do you need to SEE the wizard but you need to understand what he is doing. For all he knows without the spellcraft check, bat guano & sulfer could be used for many spells.
Further, what if the Wizard has ESCHEW MATERIALS feat? Sorcerers get that for free ya know.. What then?
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Yes a character/creature can intercept the fireball bead in order to prematurely detonate it.
I would reconsider the AC score though.
If you set a fixed AC like 20 then you'll going to be getting players to have an Archer or even a summoned monster with ranged attacks intercepting all fireballs with a ready action. Turning the fireball against its own caster.
As a GM I treat it a bit differently.
It is an opposed check among the Spellcaster's Spellcraft and an attack roll.Sometimes I might allow an easier check especially if the player uses something like a shield or his own body. But setting a fixed AC would motivate the players to start shooting arrows at it.
One more point: Fireball can travel 400ft+40ft/lvl instantly
That is rather fast, actually faster than an Arrow. The pee sized bead is like a sling stone flying! What would be the chance a readied action would intercept it?
If you would put an AC to the bead you should consider also its speed.Cheers
I don't believe PF has any rules for speed to AC. RAW the AC should be 18 because of its fine size. If there are rules for speed to AC please point me to where I can find them 'cause I don't remember seeing any.
Yes a character/creature can intercept the fireball bead in order to prematurely detonate it.
I would reconsider the AC score though.
If you set a fixed AC like 20 then you'll going to be getting players to have an Archer or even a summoned monster with ranged attacks intercepting all fireballs with a ready action. Turning the fireball against its own caster.
As a GM I treat it a bit differently.
It is an opposed check among the Spellcaster's Spellcraft and an attack roll.Sometimes I might allow an easier check especially if the player uses something like a shield or his own body. But setting a fixed AC would motivate the players to start shooting arrows at it.
One more point: Fireball can travel 400ft+40ft/lvl instantly
That is rather fast, actually faster than an Arrow. The pee sized bead is like a sling stone flying! What would be the chance a readied action would intercept it?
If you would put an AC to the bead you should consider also its speed.Cheers
If your worried about the speed then i would up the AC of the bead to show its harder to hit because its so fast. Smarter people then me would have to decide what the AC of it should be.
Also for arrows i would just say arrows can hit or effect it which takes ranged weapons out of the game from doing what your suggesting. And everyone is happy again.|
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Also for arrows i would just say arrows can hit or effect it which takes ranged weapons out of the game from doing what your suggesting. And everyone is happy again.
I'm assuming you mean "can't" instead of "can". But then no, everyone isn't happy. If arrows can't hit something, then what else can't they hit? You've just opened up a whole can of worms that negates using bows.
Yes i meant cant. And well i would say let everything else work but i know the truth of the matter is that we will have to pick what will work and what wont. or we can just make it work for everything. But that's like shooting an arrow head and hitting a bullet. Can it really happen?
Yes i meant cant. And well i would say let everything else work but i know the truth of the matter is that we will have to pick what will work and what wont. or we can just make it work for everything. But that's like shooting an arrow head and hitting a bullet. Can it really happen?
Yes. Though Highly improbable.
Yes i meant cant. And well i would say let everything else work but i know the truth of the matter is that we will have to pick what will work and what wont. or we can just make it work for everything. But that's like shooting an arrow head and hitting a bullet. Can it really happen?Yes. Though Highly improbable.
Then i would be ok with allowing everyone throw what ever they wanted it at. It might sound silly but hey if its plausible i guess i cant really say no then.
I am now entirely too obsessed by the idea of readying an action to teleport directly in front of a fireballing wizard with a fire-resistant character to get him blasted by his own spell.
Perhaps with a monster versus a player... Muahahahah...
Your a sick girl. But i think i like it. It would be really funny to see in action plus to see the dm have to then have the spell hit his guy who just cast it.