Legendary Item - Intelligent Weapon w / Shape Change Question

[Xi'Tir]

This is a repost as I may have placed my original in the wrong forum.

So Legendary Item -> Intelligent Item -> Shape Change.

Does this mean I can select another weapon type as its shape? Armor? Or just plain clothes?

Shape Change is very vague.

Shape Change: The item can change its shape into one other form(?) of the same size.

This is the exact wording from the PFSRD website.

Some questions that I need help clarifying:

1. If a Composite +4 Str Longbow +1 was selected as the legendary item w/ shape change could it then take on the form of a +1 Greatsword?

->Size Medium Weapons - Legal?
->Doesn't Indicate Weight and materials have to be the same? Only size, seems a bit open ended.

2. Could a suit of armor turn into a weapon then as well?
-> Medium Armor <-> Medium Weapon <-> Medium Clothing.

I tried searching and found nothing save for useless cheese. Your help is appreciated.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...

[Xi'Tir]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...

True thats why I asked because it honestly seems like they are giving you close to a blank check. Limited to One other form. Being an out of the box type of thinker I could see some awesome possibilities for this but don't want to go overboard when there is an explanation for it.

I understand the Not turning into Armor <-> Weapon. That makes sense. But Weapon to Weapon seems plausible. Same as Armor into clothing. But we also have glamoured for that...

The only thing I found so far was someone jokingly (I hope) about turning it into an Adamantium Boulder... :P

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Xi'Tir wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...

True thats why I asked because it honestly seems like they are giving you close to a blank check. Limited to One other form. Being an out of the box type of thinker I could see some awesome possibilities for this but don't want to go overboard when there is an explanation for it.

I understand the Not turning into Armor <-> Weapon. That makes sense. But Weapon to Weapon seems plausible. Same as Armor into clothing. But we also have glamoured for that...

The only thing I found so far was someone jokingly (I hope) about turning it into an Adamantium Boulder... :P

The problem we run into when you try and transmute ranged to melee are special properties. Melee Weapons can't have the Seeking property on them, for example and there are numerous melee-only properties that won't work on a ranged weapon.

You could treat them like the Transformative+Keen properties in cases where items that aren't a specific type just simply don't function, but that only follows the rules for when subjects are the same weapon type (just deal different types of damage); for subject matter where the weapons are two different kinds (melee or ranged, or even ammunition) the rules could be the same, they could be different.

It's just safer rules-wise and a lot less of a headache to assume that you can only transform to like-objects, such as melee to melee, ranged to ranged, armor to armor, shields to shields, etc.

[Xi'Tir]

Okay then that makes sense. My bad it didn't click at first.

Good to know and food for thought! :) Thanks for the help!

[Old Lands Slayer]

Threadmancy!

Question!

Action to perform shapechange? Only a single spell called Shapechange says it would be a free action to perform however I am curious as t what the Legendary items would be as it isn't listed...

Thanks for the Advice/Help!

[Old Lands Slayer]

Bump

I tried asking James Jacob and he told me to take it to Rules.

So what Action would it be to shape-change your weapon?

Shapechange the spell - 9th level - makes it a Free Action.

Glamered Nothing in the text indicates an action other then commanding the item which again would be along the lines of Free Action.

Hat of Disguise Functions like Disguise Self Spell - Making the Action a Standard Action

Greater Hat of Disguise Acts like Alter Self Spell - Making the Action a Standard Action

Hat of Human Guise Same as Hat of Disguise

So I am curious as I didn't see it in the Faq and it would be powerful to make a Greatsword into a lance with a free action.

Legendary Item, Shapechange Text

Shape Change: The item can change its shape into one other form of the same size.

Effectively you can't apply special abilities if they wouldn't be applicable to the alternate form of the weapon. But still A Cavalier or even a switch hitter would be very powerful being able to transform a Greatsword into a lance. They are both Two-handed weapons. Same size in that sense. Nothing in RAW that I can find for this Legendary ability says it can't be done this way.

Appreciate the feedback! :D

[Ekkias]

I've been thinking about this question as well, as one of my players has asked about doing this exact thing.

Xi'Tir: since the cost is the exact same as the Transformative weapon property, I am assuming they function exactly the same (in terms of benefits and limitations).

Old Lands Slayer: since it only applies to an Intelligent Item, which get their own standard action each round, I am considering the Shade Change to be a standard action that the item itself takes.

Obviously if the item in question is a legendary item (or artifact) then all bets are off.

Anyway, that's how I've interpreted that Intelligent Item Power.

[DalvinCentury]

I spoke with my players about this very thing. I am adding a custom page into the YAPCG Excel spreadsheet to handle things like Legendary Items, and when I came across this, I needed some more eyes on the problem.
This thread being 6 years old will not stop me from sharing our conclusions.

Shape Change seems to be an ability unique to the Mythic Ability "Legendary Item". It reads:

Shape Change: The item can change its shape into one other form of the same size.

We have decided that it intends to read as:
Shape Change:

*Select from the following: Armor, Belt, Body, Chest, Eyes, Feet, Hands, Head, Headband, Neck, Ring, Rod, Shield, Shoulders, Staff, Weapons, Wrists.

*You may select this ability multiple times, each time selecting a different class of object.

*As an action of some sort, the item can change its shape into form of the chosen shape. It retains is size category when changing shape (i.e. small, medium, large, etc.)

*You may use your legendary surge ability to modify rolls related to your items current shape.

---Then, since this is truly a vague ability, we agreed on the following rules clarification at our own table:

*Activate as a move action

*You may have your item immediately equip itself to the appropriate slot, melding with or unequipping another item if one is present.

*If your item is now a weapon, it may be used as typical weapon of that variety (you must still supply ammunition).
Weapons morphed into non-weapons cannot be used as the weapon they were originally, but may still qualify as an improvised weapon.

*If your item is a shield or armor, it ceases to impart the AC bonus of the original item.

*You may choose to select the same class of object as your original item. In this case, you are able to morph your sword into a bow, or chest plate into full plate. Along will all of the benefits and detriments.

*Enchantments that are impossible to function on the new form simply fail to function, and do nothing. They continue to work when the item morphs into a appropriate form.