Legendary Item - Intelligent Weapon w / Shape Change Question


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This is a repost as I may have placed my original in the wrong forum.

So Legendary Item -> Intelligent Item -> Shape Change.

Does this mean I can select another weapon type as its shape? Armor? Or just plain clothes?

Shape Change is very vague.

Shape Change: The item can change its shape into one other form(?) of the same size.

This is the exact wording from the PFSRD website.

Some questions that I need help clarifying:

1. If a Composite +4 Str Longbow +1 was selected as the legendary item w/ shape change could it then take on the form of a +1 Greatsword?

->Size Medium Weapons - Legal?
->Doesn't Indicate Weight and materials have to be the same? Only size, seems a bit open ended.

2. Could a suit of armor turn into a weapon then as well?
-> Medium Armor <-> Medium Weapon <-> Medium Clothing.

I tried searching and found nothing save for useless cheese. Your help is appreciated.


I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...

True thats why I asked because it honestly seems like they are giving you close to a blank check. Limited to One other form. Being an out of the box type of thinker I could see some awesome possibilities for this but don't want to go overboard when there is an explanation for it.

I understand the Not turning into Armor <-> Weapon. That makes sense. But Weapon to Weapon seems plausible. Same as Armor into clothing. But we also have glamoured for that...

The only thing I found so far was someone jokingly (I hope) about turning it into an Adamantium Boulder... :P


Xi'Tir wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I find that it has to remain the same type for its transformation to apply. Being able to transform into any type really questions the kind of properties that can be/are put on it, as well as whether the transformation allows alteration of those properties or not.

Simply put, it should remain the same item type whenever it transforms. So you can't turn a ranged weapon into a melee weapon, and vice versa, the same way you can't turn a shield into armor, and armor into a shield. It just bounces way too many mechanics, something which I doubt is the intent of the effect.

But, it's an Artifact, so I suppose if there's anything that can surpass those sorts of rules, it's an Artifact...

True thats why I asked because it honestly seems like they are giving you close to a blank check. Limited to One other form. Being an out of the box type of thinker I could see some awesome possibilities for this but don't want to go overboard when there is an explanation for it.

I understand the Not turning into Armor <-> Weapon. That makes sense. But Weapon to Weapon seems plausible. Same as Armor into clothing. But we also have glamoured for that...

The only thing I found so far was someone jokingly (I hope) about turning it into an Adamantium Boulder... :P

The problem we run into when you try and transmute ranged to melee are special properties. Melee Weapons can't have the Seeking property on them, for example and there are numerous melee-only properties that won't work on a ranged weapon.

You could treat them like the Transformative+Keen properties in cases where items that aren't a specific type just simply don't function, but that only follows the rules for when subjects are the same weapon type (just deal different types of damage); for subject matter where the weapons are two different kinds (melee or ranged, or even ammunition) the rules could be the same, they could be different.

It's just safer rules-wise and a lot less of a headache to assume that you can only transform to like-objects, such as melee to melee, ranged to ranged, armor to armor, shields to shields, etc.


Okay then that makes sense. My bad it didn't click at first.

Good to know and food for thought! :) Thanks for the help!


Threadmancy!

Question!

Action to perform shapechange? Only a single spell called Shapechange says it would be a free action to perform however I am curious as t what the Legendary items would be as it isn't listed...

Thanks for the Advice/Help!


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Bump

I tried asking James Jacob and he told me to take it to Rules.

So what Action would it be to shape-change your weapon?

Shapechange the spell - 9th level - makes it a Free Action.

Glamered Nothing in the text indicates an action other then commanding the item which again would be along the lines of Free Action.

Hat of Disguise Functions like Disguise Self Spell - Making the Action a Standard Action

Greater Hat of Disguise Acts like Alter Self Spell - Making the Action a Standard Action

Hat of Human Guise Same as Hat of Disguise

So I am curious as I didn't see it in the Faq and it would be powerful to make a Greatsword into a lance with a free action.

Legendary Item, Shapechange Text

Shape Change: The item can change its shape into one other form of the same size.

Effectively you can't apply special abilities if they wouldn't be applicable to the alternate form of the weapon. But still A Cavalier or even a switch hitter would be very powerful being able to transform a Greatsword into a lance. They are both Two-handed weapons. Same size in that sense. Nothing in RAW that I can find for this Legendary ability says it can't be done this way.

Appreciate the feedback! :D


I've been thinking about this question as well, as one of my players has asked about doing this exact thing.

Xi'Tir: since the cost is the exact same as the Transformative weapon property, I am assuming they function exactly the same (in terms of benefits and limitations).

Old Lands Slayer: since it only applies to an Intelligent Item, which get their own standard action each round, I am considering the Shade Change to be a standard action that the item itself takes.

Obviously if the item in question is a legendary item (or artifact) then all bets are off.

Anyway, that's how I've interpreted that Intelligent Item Power.

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