So would this allow you to flurry with a ranged or a two handed weapon if your diety's weapon was ranged/two-handed?
|
It notes melee weapon.
So, two handed is fine. Ranged, not allowed.
Well, if it happens to be a Melee, and a Ranged weapon, like a Dagger, then it should be fine.
Yes - like a Cleric/Monk of Desna should be able to flurry with Starknives - and i'd even let them do so if they were throwing them...
But a Cleric/Monk of Abadar would get no benefit from Crusaders Flurry with a light crossbow - which sucks because it could have been an opportunity to make a decent crossbow character...
Brb flurrying with an Axe Musket
Worth noting, I don't think you can technically use it to flurry when making ranged attacks with a ranged/melee weapon. For instance, I think a Cleric/Monk of Desna isn't technically allowed to make a flurry of ranged attacks with daggers.
That being said, I would allow daggers to be thrown with flurry. But not for example, an axe musket to be fired for a flurry.
Why? Because when you use a thrown weapon as a thrown weapon it is no longer a melee weapon, and so longer qualifies for use with flurry. However, as I stated there are many options that are flavorful and not overly powerful to allow. Starknives and daggers should be just fine, as any thrown weapon would be. If you managed to finagle a gun, bow, crossbow in there somehow (axe-bow? I don't know, imagine something) then that certainly goes against both RAI as I see it and what I'm willing to allow.
The "technically" is that the follower of Desna can flurry throw as it doesn't say they can't. This does seem to go against the spirit of the wording however.
The "technically" is that the follower of Desna can flurry throw as it doesn't say they can't. This does seem to go against the spirit of the wording however.
It doesn't need to, because when you start trying to throw the dagger it ceases being a melee weapon and no longer qualifies for use with the feat.
The "technically" is that the follower of Desna can flurry throw as it doesn't say they can't. This does seem to go against the spirit of the wording however.It doesn't need to, because when you start trying to throw the dagger it ceases being a melee weapon and no longer qualifies for use with the feat.
Source? You seem to be creating a false dichotomy. A weapon's melee-ness does not have to be determined by its use at a given time. If I were to throw an orange at you, it would still be a fruit. Likewise, the star knife is still a melee weapon, even if you are using it to pick your teeth.
Quite literally apples and oranges.
While the orange may be a fruit, it goes from being food to being a projectile. Let's be honest, this example doesn't actually have any bearing on the situation. Because I'll agree that a starknive or dagger remains such at all times whether it is being thrown or used in melee. But the quality of being a melee weapon or thrown weapon depends on the usage at the time.
Melee weapons are melee weapons when used in melee. Weapons thrown to make attacks at range are ranged weapons. If you're not using it in melee, it's not a melee weapon at that time.
This is similar to the following situation: if you were a dagger wielding rogue who happened to be flanking someone and attacked them in melee with the dagger you would get sneak attack. If you attempt to throw the dagger at them, you no longer meet the melee requirement and so cannot flank. And thus cannot benefit make sneak attacks (using flanking).
The "technically" is that the follower of Desna can flurry throw as it doesn't say they can't. This does seem to go against the spirit of the wording however.
I would counter with the precedent that the vast majority of rules in Pathfinder say what you CAN do. Feats all let you do something you cannot because they say you CAN.
There is nearly nothing in pathfinder you can do because no rule says you cannot. Saying that nothing says you cannot does not logically make it that you can. That is falacious.
Example: By that logic I can change shape at will or fight while dead. Nothing in the game rules specifically say I cannot. There are many rules that tell me how I can but nothing says I cannot simply because I want to.
@Claxon
Apples and oranges. That's the difference in a type of attack as opposed to a type of weapon. If the feat had specified a melee attack you would be correct.
But let's look at the feat:
Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity’s favored melee weapon.
Benefit: You can use your deity’s favored weapon as if it were a monk weapon.
If the benefit wanted to limit the flurry to melee attacks it could have said so. Furthermore, the prerequisite is never invalidated. You would indeed have weapon focus with your deity's favored melee weapon. The benefit cares not that the weapon is melee or ranged.
Now here's a really egregious "technically". The feat's benefit doesn't even specify "chosen" weapon. So, if your deity had two favored weapons, one ranged and one melee. You could meet the prerequisite with one weapon and yet flurry with the other.
|
The Harrow Warden monk can flurry with starknives.
The Sohei can flurry with crossbows.
The Far Strike monk can flurry with all thrown weapons.
There is nothing that breaks existing game balance to allow any monk to flurry with a thrown or ranged weapon via crusader's flurry. Especially as you will need to multiclass and take quickdraw/rapid reload feat tax to make it work.
That said, strict raw specifies melee weapon only.
|
|
Is there any deity with one ranged and one melee favoured weapon? The only deity I know of who has more than one favoured weapon is Apsu (bite and quarterstaff) and that's probably because not all his worshipers will have a bite.
There are three deities with multiple favored weapons:
Aspu: Bite & Quarterstaff
Dahak: Bite & Whip
Lamashtu: Kukri & Falchion (depending on source)
There is also green faith with Druid weapons. But that's questionable if it could meet the prerequisite since you would need weapon focus with all druid weapons.
|
Dahak makes sense, for the same reason as Aspu.
Wasn't Lamashtu's favoured weapon just the falchion, with the kukri being secondary?
She carries two blades: one shrouded in fire called Redlust; and the other in frost called Chillheart. The length of each blade varies from that of a standard kukri to that of a falchion.
The favored weapon of the faith is the falchion, though some also carry kukris in emulation of Lamashtu herself.
I'm also pretty sure that "druidic weapons" isn't the mechanical favoured weapon for the Green Faith, just the weapons that they tend to use.
There already are ranged/thrown weapons with the monk property, so Flurry per se is not limited to melee attacks