Ways to speed up reloading a firearm?

[thegreenteagamer]

So, aside from Rapid Reload, what other ways can you speed up reloading a firearm? Assume only early firearms are available.

I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to get multiple attacks in a round with a musket master...or two-weapon pistolero would be even better.

[Lamontius]

Alchemical Cartridges (Paper) - From Ultimate Combat

One-Handed Firearm (ex. Pistol): Reloads on a Standard Action. Rapid Reload takes it to a Move Action. Using Alchemical Cartridges and Rapid Reload specifically takes the Move Action, as per the write-up I linked, to a FREE action.

Two-Handed Firearm (ex. Musket): Reloads on a Full-Round Action. Musket Master Archetype at 3rd level allows two-handed firearms to be loaded as if they were a one-handed firearm. Then, same progression as above to a Free Action.

[Tony Harding]

thegreenteagamer wrote:

So, aside from Rapid Reload, what other ways can you speed up reloading a firearm? Assume only early firearms are available.

I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to get multiple attacks in a round with a musket master...or two-weapon pistolero would be even better.

Alchemical Cartridges

[thegreenteagamer]

So, what do I need to make these? Craft (gunsmithing) or Craft (alchemy)?

[Lamontius]

thegreenteagamer wrote:

So, what do I need to make these? Craft (gunsmithing) or Craft (alchemy)?

Consult the Gunsmithing Feat

Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).

[Mirwalk]

Lamontius wrote:

Alchemical Cartridges (Paper) - From Ultimate Combat

One-Handed Firearm (ex. Pistol): Reloads on a Standard Action. Rapid Reload takes it to a Move Action. Using Alchemical Cartridges and Rapid Reload specifically takes the Move Action, as per the write-up I linked, to a FREE action.

Two-Handed Firearm (ex. Musket): Reloads on a Full-Round Action. Musket Master Archetype at 3rd level allows two-handed firearms to be loaded as if they were a one-handed firearm. Then, same progression as above to a Free Action.

Question, how would you dual wield? Don't you need a free hand to reload?

I read about weapon cords, but see that you need a swift action to pick the weapon back up. But you only get one swift a round. Wouldn't that leave one hand without a gun?

[Bigdaddyjug]

Fire all of your shots with 1 gun, drop it as a free, swift to pick up the other, fire all of your shots with the second.

On the next round, you switch the order of the gun use.

[Lamontius]

Go ahead and search the forums for your question. The 348,948,302 other threads that have beaten that issue to death will do a better job of crushing your dreams than I ever could.
Keep in mind that Weapon Cords now work on Move Action, not a Swift Action.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Mirwalk wrote:

Question, how would you dual wield? Don't you need a free hand to reload?

Gun Twirling. There's no need for Weapon Cord or Gloves of Storing shenenigans anymore.

[Bigdaddyjug]

Anarchy_Kanya wrote:

Mirwalk wrote:

Question, how would you dual wield? Don't you need a free hand to reload?

Gun Twirling. There's no need for Weapon Cord or Gloves of Storing shenenigans anymore.

Yeah except all of the pre-reqs to use it are terrible.

[Zhayne]

The only one that really seems like a reach is Dazzling Display. You're going to want either Amateur Gunslinger or Grit to use firearms, and who doesn't take Weapon Focus for their main weapon?

[cnetarian]

Not terrible but enough to confine TWFing with pistols to high levels.

To TWF with pistols at all effectively using gun twirling a character needs the following 5 feats:

rapid reload (pistol)
weapon focus (pistol) * +1 hit is not all that useful to a pistol using gunslinger because hit chance tends towards being either 2+ or 20+
dazzling display (pistol) * useless, maybe worse than useless since it might tempt a player to try to use it
gun twirling (pistol)
two weapon fighting

And with those 5 feats you are less effective with two pistols than a single pistol user with these 3 feats:

rapid reload (pistol)
point blank shot
rapid shot

The worm in the apple is that once a gunslinger has those 3 feats then adding TWF with gun twirling is an excellent option.

[Zhayne]

At that point, just get Pistols of the Infinite Sky. :)

[Issac Daneil]

I'd go with 2 lvls of Rogue (Thug) to get Frightening, Evasion, and Rogue Talent that gives Weapon Focus. Then take that trait that enhances intimidate while using a firearm.

If you get a high enough intimidate, you can send them all running, then rearrange as you see fit. Think of it as a Panic Button option.

[cnetarian]

Zhayne wrote:

At that point, just get Pistols of the Infinite Sky. :)

I wish I could say you were wrong, but we are looking at the level where Pistols of the Infinite Sky are affordable before TWFing pistols using gun twirling pays off. A human gunslinger could get all the feats to TWF using base TWfing at level 9, but level 11 is signature deed and level 12 would be improved (not greater) TWFing.

[thejeff]

The other option is a tail or vestigial arm or some other way of getting and extra way to hold things. That usually takes a dip though. Are there race options?
Isn't there a belt that gives you a prehensile tail? But that means you give up the physical stat booster.
Some people claim a Glove of Storing works. I think you can't actually swap hands. Check with your GM.

[thegreenteagamer]

thejeff wrote:

The other option is a tail or vestigial arm or some other way of getting and extra way to hold things. That usually takes a dip though. Are there race options?

Isn't there a belt that gives you a prehensile tail? But that means you give up the physical stat booster.
Some people claim a Glove of Storing works. I think you can't actually swap hands. Check with your GM.

Tieflings can start with a prehensile tail. Monkey goblins, too.

[Zhayne]

cnetarian wrote:

Zhayne wrote:

At that point, just get Pistols of the Infinite Sky. :)

I wish I could say you were wrong, but we are looking at the level where Pistols of the Infinite Sky are affordable before TWFing pistols using gun twirling pays off. A human gunslinger could get all the feats to TWF using base TWfing at level 9, but level 11 is signature deed and level 12 would be improved (not greater) TWFing.

Just make a lower-plussed version.

[SinBlade06]

One more thought I have would be the Gnome Archetype Experimental Gunsmith.

Technically, you are building your own weapon and creating the perfect firearm. You get the ability Expanded Capacity, which increases the number of shots you can make before reloading.

While not technically speading up your reload, there's nothing that says it slows you down, so the Rapid Reload/Alchemical Cartridges thing works, it reloads both shots for you.

That's my two copper, anyway.

[cnetarian]

Grippi can use their tongue to hold a pistol while reloading (might want to wipe it off though).

Glove of storing works because switching hands is a free action per a FAQ, although I cannot remember which one.

Monkey belt costs 9K+ but gives +2 DEX in addition to a tail so isn't all that bad (a +4 DEX belt costs 16k and you might miss out on that but a +6 DEX belt costs 36K and you are getting near pistol of infinite sky territory when you can afford a 36K belt).

[thejeff]

cnetarian wrote:

Grippi can use their tongue to hold a pistol while reloading (might want to wipe it off though).

Glove of storing works because switching hands is a free action per a FAQ, although I cannot remember which one.

The argument with the glove is that while you can switch a gun from one hand to the other as a free action, you shouldn't be able to do that when you already have a gun in each hand. You need someplace to put one of them. If you walk through the process one step at a time, you wind up with 2 guns in one hand.

Unless there's a FAQ somewhere specifically saying you can swap 2 weapons as a free action, I wouldn't consider it RAW.

Edit: The tongue is awesome. I may have to play a grippli gunslinger, just for that. I was thinking Vanara, but the tongue.
Edit2: It's a feat, which makes it slightly less attractive. Hmmm.

[cnetarian]

I'm with you on the glove of storing and read it that way myself, "exchanging items in both hands" is not the same as "switching hands", but it is a very minority reading.