I am working on a sorceress (Dragon Drinker archetype, Silver Dragon Bloodline) who basically her MO is she hunts chromatic dragons (mostly), in fact she's herself Lawful Good (same as her silver dragon ancestor).
So, to team up with her I was thinking about making a Paladin who was Oath Against the Wyrm, but when I read the code of conduct it seems to suggest that he would be like "WTF you're a draconic sorceress? DIE, EVIL DRAGON CREATURE!" or at the very least "WTF you're a draconic sorceress? GTFO!"
Am I reading too much into it, or am I correct that he would not be able to work with her?
Talk to the player of the paladin and ask them what their intent is with the character. Note that Oath Against the Wyrm says the following (emphasis added):
Few dragons see the smaller races of the world as their equals—to most, humanoids are either food or an annoyance. Some paladins swear to protect others against the predation of dragonkind. Some include dragon-blooded creatures (such as half-dragons or even sorcerers with the draconic bloodline) in their oath and team up with inquisitors to root out those whose ancestry carries the taint of dragon magic. Many paladins with this oath are thrill-seekers for the cause of good, channeling their divine power in ways that allow them to take on their powerful foes head on.
Note that it's "some" and not "all".
Talk to the player of the paladin and ask them what their intent is with the character. Note that Oath Against the Wyrm says the following (emphasis added):
Few dragons see the smaller races of the world as their equals—to most, humanoids are either food or an annoyance. Some paladins swear to protect others against the predation of dragonkind. Some include dragon-blooded creatures (such as half-dragons or even sorcerers with the draconic bloodline) in their oath and team up with inquisitors to root out those whose ancestry carries the taint of dragon magic. Many paladins with this oath are thrill-seekers for the cause of good, channeling their divine power in ways that allow them to take on their powerful foes head on.Note that it's "some" and not "all".
Okay, the part that makes me question is the actual code of conduct...
Slay evil dragons, as well as other dangerous dragons whether or not they are evil. Prevent the bloodlines of other creatures from being corrupted with draconic power. Protect the innocent against the predation of dragons.
So, while he might not KILL her, would he be okay to work with her if she's 'corrupted' and even more so a dragon blood drinking sorceress?
EDIT: Okay, got ninjaed a bit... so yeah might not like it if she has children, but otherwise could be friendly with her.
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The actual Oath, which is the only thing he's actually bound to, is as follows:
Slay evil dragons, as well as other dangerous dragons whether or not they are evil. Prevent the bloodlines of other creatures from being corrupted with draconic power. Protect the innocent against the predation of dragons.
That says nothing about harming or even complaining about Good or benign dragons or draconic creatures. Debatably he'd object to her having children due to the bloodline thing...but that'd be the extent of any discrimination, and I'm not sure most GMs would enforce even that.
EDIT: Seriously ninja'd. Ah, well.
Alright, thanks everyone I'm actually pretty much the GM in this case, these are potential NPCs in what is probably going to be a single player campaign. Just wanted to get some opinions before I decide if I want to make him a Paladin or a Dragon Slayer Ranger.
Now, something else I just thought of... what if he had eldritch heritage Silver Draconic? Would that negate him from being able to be a Wyrm Paladin, or would it just mean he doesn't LIKE his family (and would be not having kids more than likely, unless he only hated evil dragons), kind of like a tiefling paladin taking Oath against fiends?
Haha just had a funny thought... at level 20+... Raid on Hermea! Cause JJ pretty much said, if they stated out Mengkare, he'd be a LE Gold Dragon, not the usual LG.
As long as she keeps acting in her LG fashion, I would see no problem in it. He might be wary of her in the same way that any paladin might be when working with chaotic and/or nonlawful party members. But other than that, should be fine.
Alright, thanks everyone I'm actually pretty much the GM in this case, these are potential NPCs in what is probably going to be a single player campaign. Just wanted to get some opinions before I decide if I want to make him a Paladin or a Dragon Slayer Ranger.
Now, something else I just thought of... what if he had eldritch heritage Silver Draconic? Would that negate him from being able to be a Wyrm Paladin, or would it just mean he doesn't LIKE his family (and would be not having kids more than likely, unless he only hated evil dragons), kind of like a tiefling paladin taking Oath against fiends?
Haha just had a funny thought... at level 20+... Raid on Hermea! Cause JJ pretty much said, if they stated out Mengkare, he'd be a LE Gold Dragon, not the usual LG.
How serious is the setting? Because this feels like some serious Takahasi-style mess here.
Also, I doubt Mengkare is Evil. I can see him tarnishing to Neutral at base, but I feel him slipping all the way to Evil should be the focus of a campaign, not just a raid.
Alright, thanks everyone I'm actually pretty much the GM in this case, these are potential NPCs in what is probably going to be a single player campaign. Just wanted to get some opinions before I decide if I want to make him a Paladin or a Dragon Slayer Ranger.
Now, something else I just thought of... what if he had eldritch heritage Silver Draconic? Would that negate him from being able to be a Wyrm Paladin, or would it just mean he doesn't LIKE his family (and would be not having kids more than likely, unless he only hated evil dragons), kind of like a tiefling paladin taking Oath against fiends?
Haha just had a funny thought... at level 20+... Raid on Hermea! Cause JJ pretty much said, if they stated out Mengkare, he'd be a LE Gold Dragon, not the usual LG.
How serious is the setting? Because this feels like some serious Takahasi-style mess here.
Also, I doubt Mengkare is Evil. I can see him tarnishing to Neutral at base, but I feel him slipping all the way to Evil should be the focus of a campaign, not just a raid.
James Jacobs very much implied (if not outright said) awhile back he's be Lawful Evil. I tried to find the time I asked him so I could quote it, but all I could find was when someone else asked and he said he didn't want to say yet...
As for being serious, It's as serious as most any Golarion campaign, and... I have no idea what "takahasi-style" is.
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James Jacobs very much implied (if not outright said) awhile back he's be Lawful Evil. I tried to find the time I asked him so I could quote it, but all I could find was when someone else asked and he said he didn't want to say yet...
There's a reason for that. As noted in point #10 here, James Jacobs does indeed believe as you say...while James Sutter, who's actually written most of Mengkare's stuff, thinks he is LG. Which makes which is canonically true...ambiguous at the moment.
Alright, thanks everyone I'm actually pretty much the GM in this case, these are potential NPCs in what is probably going to be a single player campaign. Just wanted to get some opinions before I decide if I want to make him a Paladin or a Dragon Slayer Ranger.
Now, something else I just thought of... what if he had eldritch heritage Silver Draconic? Would that negate him from being able to be a Wyrm Paladin, or would it just mean he doesn't LIKE his family (and would be not having kids more than likely, unless he only hated evil dragons), kind of like a tiefling paladin taking Oath against fiends?
Haha just had a funny thought... at level 20+... Raid on Hermea! Cause JJ pretty much said, if they stated out Mengkare, he'd be a LE Gold Dragon, not the usual LG.
How serious is the setting? Because this feels like some serious Takahasi-style mess here.
Also, I doubt Mengkare is Evil. I can see him tarnishing to Neutral at base, but I feel him slipping all the way to Evil should be the focus of a campaign, not just a raid.
James Jacobs very much implied (if not outright said) awhile back he's be Lawful Evil. I tried to find the time I asked him so I could quote it, but all I could find was when someone else asked and he said he didn't want to say yet...
As for being serious, It's as serious as most any Golarion campaign, and... I have no idea what "takahasi-style" is.
"Takahashi" as in Rumiko Takahashi, Author of manga series' Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha.
Basically, I'm saying the setup feels like a couple whose arguments counterpoint a strong mutual attraction .
Slay evil dragons, as well as other dangerous dragons whether or not they are evil. Prevent the bloodlines of other creatures from being corrupted with draconic power. Protect the innocent against the predation of dragons.So, while he might not KILL her, would he be okay to work with her if she's 'corrupted' and even more so a dragon blood drinking sorceress?
EDIT: Okay, got ninjaed a bit... so yeah might not like it if she has children, but otherwise could be friendly with her.
Just be glad its a female specimen or else you would have a harder time with preventing other bloodlines from being corrupted.
Side question: Would a paladin in such a case be allowed to smuggle bachelor snuff into the draconic sorcerer's body? If it was a male and he intended to be free with his love so to say?
James Jacobs very much implied (if not outright said) awhile back he's be Lawful Evil. I tried to find the time I asked him so I could quote it, but all I could find was when someone else asked and he said he didn't want to say yet...There's a reason for that. As noted in point #10 here, James Jacobs does indeed believe as you say...while James Sutter, who's actually written most of Mengkare's stuff, thinks he is LG. Which makes which is canonically true...ambiguous at the moment.
Ah, that's a much better explanation, but the key that I get from it this...
If among your deeds you regularly force intelligent creatures to live a lifestyle of your design and force them to breed with people you select and aren't afraid of breaking up and mixing up families so you can produce a "perfect race," then there's no way that I'll ever let you get published with ANY good alignment.
Seeing as how my views on human eugenics 100% match what JJ said in that post (thank you again for that by the way), even if James Sutter managed to get Mengkare published as Lawful Good, I'd be house ruling it without a second thought. I also should add, I mean no disrespect to James Sutter in saying that, I just cannot and never will see what Mengkare is doing as something a good person would be doing. In fact, one of my characters that is central to my personal stories in Golarion is a Changeling witch raised on Hermea (she was brought as a potential avenue for increased magical power) that passed her citizenship test with flying colors then gave Mengkare the finger and left the island.
Then as for the Takahasi thing, I had actually been thinking about having them be married (nothing says a paladin can't have a wife), but yes if they did they would very much NOT be into having children. But, if they were not a couple, then no I wouldn't have any silliness like that going on.
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If among your deeds you regularly force intelligent creatures to live a lifestyle of your design and force them to breed with people you select and aren't afraid of breaking up and mixing up families so you can produce a "perfect race," then there's no way that I'll ever let you get published with ANY good alignment.Seeing as how my views on human eugenics 100% match what JJ said in that post (thank you again for that by the way), even if James Sutter managed to get Mengkare published as Lawful Good, I'd be house ruling it without a second thought. I also should add, I mean no disrespect to James Sutter in saying that, I just cannot and never will see what Mengkare is doing as something a good person would be doing. In fact, one of my characters that is central to my personal stories in Golarion is a Changeling witch raised on Hermea (she was brought as a potential avenue for increased magical power) that passed her citizenship test with flying colors then gave Mengkare the finger and left the island.
It really depends on whether that's what's happening...which isn't entirely clear. Debatably, if all the people involved are volunteers and can leave whenever they desire...it's hard to argue these acts as Evil, since nobody is being forced to do anything per se. Neutral as opposed to Good? Probably...but they aren't the entirety of Hermea's society, and Neutral acts rarely make a Good person no longer Good.
I'm not sure I agree with the point I just argued, mind you, I'm just noting that it's arguable.
Yeah, she's a silver dragon, so it's all about her behavior. He may discourage unchaste behavior, but is it really "corruption" if it's Good Dragon blood passing around?