| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Rogue, Core page 68 provides: Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
Arcane Trickster, Core page 377 provides: Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name.
Arcane trickster, Core page 378 provides: At 10th level an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat footed.
Question: Does that mean that only flat footed targets that are also within 30 feet of the caster of a surprise spell, for instance fireball, take sneak attack damage?
Off the top of my head, I say RAI yes RAW no.
I take it to mean 30' unless you have sniper goggles.
However, the trickster ability overrides the range limitation, since it says "any spell that deals damage." The limitation would be the range of the spell, and you can add sneak damage if your target is flat footed to you (or you use Impromptu sneak attack).
Tricksters won't have that ability until they're 16th level or so, so it's hardly overpowered.
This is partially answered in the FAQ:
The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
—Jason Bulmahn, 05/31/11
I take it to mean 30' unless you have sniper goggles.
However, the trickster ability overrides the range limitation, since it says "any spell that deals damage." The limitation would be the range of the spell, and you can add sneak damage if your target is flat footed to you (or you use Impromptu sneak attack).
I'm not sure that is so much allowing the trickster to apply sneak attack at any range as much as it is allowing them to apply sneak attack with spells, which normally can't be done because sneak attack normally only applies on an attack action, and a spell isn't an attack action.
To make thing more confusing I have an additional question: Can you apply sneak attack when using a spell that requires a touch attack to effect the target?
As long as the spell does hit point damage, you would apply your sneak attack damage. So yes, your shocking grasp does sneak attack, while your touch of fatigue does not.
Rogue, Core page 68 provides: Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
Arcane Trickster, Core page 377 provides: Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name.
Arcane trickster, Core page 378 provides: At 10th level an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat footed.
Question: Does that mean that only flat footed targets that are also within 30 feet of the caster of a surprise spell, for instance fireball, take sneak attack damage?
A fireball is not a ranged attack so it would not be limited. Since it is hard to make someone flat-footed I don't think the limit is needed. You sneak attack them, and then you got to sneak attacking like a normal rogue.
I take it to mean 30' unless you have sniper goggles.
However, the trickster ability overrides the range limitation, since it says "any spell that deals damage." The limitation would be the range of the spell, and you can add sneak damage if your target is flat footed to you (or you use Impromptu sneak attack).
I'm not sure that is so much allowing the trickster to apply sneak attack at any range as much as it is allowing them to apply sneak attack with spells, which normally can't be done because sneak attack normally only applies on an attack action, and a spell isn't an attack action.
To make thing more confusing I have an additional question: Can you apply sneak attack when using a spell that requires a touch attack to effect the target?
A regular rogue can sneak attack with any spell that does damage. The sneak attack description talks about attacks, not attack actions. Since spells that hinder foes are considered to be attacks, that means you can apply sneak attack damage if you attack with spells just fine.
You can NOT use sneak any with ANY spell that does damage. The surprise spell feature allows you to do it, and it has been that way for over 10 years now. If you could already do it, that feature would not exist. Now of course I am speaking of RAI. If you are speaking RAW then I will inform that we come here to find out how the rules work, not to generally find loopholes in the wording. It is not hard to twist the words to the effect you want if you try hard enough.
|
1) you need to use a spell that deal hp of damage, as sneak attack deal hp of damage and it is the same kind of damage of the attack. I.e. if you are using a piercing weapon it is piercing, if you are using scorching ray it is fire.
If you are using touch of fatigue, fatigue hp of damage don't exist and you don't add anything.
2) "Arcane trickster, Core page 378 provides: At 10th level an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat footed."
I don't see any comment here about changing the range at which you can apply sneak attack. It say that you can add it to any spell that deal hp of damage instead of only spells that require an attack roll, but it don't say anywhere that the range at which you can apply it is increased, so that is not changed.
Yeah, if you go by the rules you can sneak attack with any spell that does damage (as long as you follow the other sneak attack rules).
I guess it thus makes sense if you can ignore the other limitations for Surprise Spells.
Of course, since we're not the designers themselves, what they actually intended it just a guessing game.
It is not a guessing game, but since you have not explained away surprise spell I guess you have nothing to add.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The rules don't say you can only attack from within 30 feet. They say ranged attacks have a limit of 30 feet. It is not a ranged attack the limit does not apply.
Yes there is a difference.
Lets say you have some gargantuan creature with sneak attack,and it has a reach weapon. It will be more than 30 feet away so it could not sneak attack if the limit was 30 feet.
A ranged attack is very specific in pathfinder, and unless the spell in question is actually a ranged attack the limit does not apply. I am not saying it makes sense, but that is the rule.
|
|
The rules don't say you can only attack from within 30 feet. They say ranged attacks have a limit of 30 feet. It is not a ranged attack the limit does not apply.
Yes there is a difference.
Lets say you have some gargantuan creature with sneak attack,and it has a reach weapon. It will be more than 30 feet away so it could not sneak attack if the limit was 30 feet.
A ranged attack is very specific in pathfinder, and unless the spell in question is actually a ranged attack the limit does not apply. I am not saying it makes sense, but that is the rule.
Valid point, but then we have a very strange consequence:
Scorching Ray is a ranged attack and a arcane trickster can add the sneak attack damage only within 30'.
Fireball or magic missiles aren't ranged attacks, so he can deal sneak damage attack at any range.