More Unchained Monk issues


Rules Questions


Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks can be with fists, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk can make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk can apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes. A monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, although he can choose to deal nonlethal damage with no penalty on his attack roll. He can make this choice while grappling as well.

Apparently a Monk's unarmed strike cannot be used as an off hand weapon even outside of a flurry.

Flurry of Blows
At 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what's already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).

An unchained monk does 1.5 Str with a 2-handed weapon in a flurry now.


We've been down this road before on the Unarmed Strike.

It doesn't mean what it says it means. What it means is that a Monk using an unarmed strike for an off-hand attack deals full strength damage. Think of it like a very limited version of Double Slice.


The second thing on Flurry of Blows isn't too big a deal since Monks make up for inaccuracy with quantity.

Also it further cements that Paizo prefers 2HF over 2WF.


The 2her thing is not really news, every monk unchained thread talks about it. quite frankly, i think its a nice boost, considering that if you focus on weapons, your level 5+ bonus moves have a smaller bonus to attack, since most are based on an unarmed strike


thorin001 wrote:
Apparently a Monk's unarmed strike cannot be used as an off hand weapon even outside of a flurry.

It's to prevent a monk from taking TWF feats, I guess. Otherwise: why would you ever make an off-hand attack with a monk?

thorin001 wrote:
An unchained monk does 1.5 Str with a 2-handed weapon in a flurry now.

Is this an issue?


Rub-Eta wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
An unchained monk does 1.5 Str with a 2-handed weapon in a flurry now.
Is this an issue?

I think you're confusing a feature for a bug


Flurry > TWF anyway. Why would you worry about it?

Grand Lodge

Is there a question here?


Zenogu wrote:
Flurry > TWF anyway. Why would you worry about it?

People like to TWF AND Flurry. It was a thing in 3.5 as well.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

See, this is what bothers me about general criticism against the unchained classes, especially the monk. I see people complain that the class feels underwhelming. Then when they spot a not-so-obvious powerful intended feature of the class, they call it a "bug."


Rub-Eta wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
Apparently a Monk's unarmed strike cannot be used as an off hand weapon even outside of a flurry.

It's to prevent a monk from taking TWF feats, I guess. Otherwise: why would you ever make an off-hand attack with a monk?

thorin001 wrote:
An unchained monk does 1.5 Str with a 2-handed weapon in a flurry now.
Is this an issue?

For the TWF thing, you get more attacks using the TWF chain than you do with the Unchained Flurry. Also a mulitclassed Monk might want their off-hand weapon to be an unarmed strike to use Deflect Arrows or some other feat that requires an empty hand.

For the 2-hander thing, it was an observation of a difference from CRB Monks. Of course the PDT may consider it an oversight and correct it.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

We've been down this road before on the Unarmed Strike.

It doesn't mean what it says it means. What it means is that a Monk using an unarmed strike for an off-hand attack deals full strength damage. Think of it like a very limited version of Double Slice.

Leading off with 'words do not mean what they mean' is not a very effective tactic in a rules debate. If the intent is so very different than what is actually written then an errata is desperately needed.


thorin001 wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

We've been down this road before on the Unarmed Strike.

It doesn't mean what it says it means. What it means is that a Monk using an unarmed strike for an off-hand attack deals full strength damage. Think of it like a very limited version of Double Slice.

Leading off with 'words do not mean what they mean' is not a very effective tactic in a rules debate. If the intent is so very different than what is actually written then an errata is desperately needed.

This is Paizo we're talking about. They probably pulled the verbiage from the 3.5 SRD [where it meant exactly what I said] but intend to FAQ away any benefits the Monk would get from it.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Zenogu wrote:
Flurry > TWF anyway. Why would you worry about it?
People like to TWF AND Flurry. It was a thing in 3.5 as well.

I'm rather certain you can't combine TWF with Flurry in the CRB. I doubt it would be different with Unchained.

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