Is there anyway to get these two together? Class wise, archetype, prestige class, etc?
Sure, I can think of several possible combos to get Smite X and Rage off the top of my head. Most of them are fairly subpar though especially since Paladins and Barbarians are alignment bound. Paladin(Sacred Servant of Vildeis), Paladin/Cleric or Paladin/Inquisitor with Rage domain, Paladin/Ranger(Wild Stalker), Paladin/Bloodrager, Barbarian/Anti-Paladin.
If it is ok to just have it on your AC you can be an aasimar mad dog barbarian with the celestial servant feat and the ferocious beast rage power.
Just to add it. The other options mentioned seem more what you are looking for.
A Sacred Servant Paladin of Ragathiel can choose the Rage Domain.
A Sacred Servant Paladin of Ragathiel can choose the Rage Domain.
Right, that archetype only modifies smite. I had thought it would be replaced.
If your GM allows Mythic rules, the 3rd tier Universal path ability Beyond Morality lets you disregard alignment for classes and spells. It's not exactly an easy feat to achieve, but it could let you get your holy fury on.
You can be an ex-Barbarian who starts taking levels in Paladin. Not entirely unreasonable RP wise, too. You wouldn't be able to continue with Barbarian levels, though.
You can be an ex-Barbarian who starts taking levels in Paladin. Not entirely unreasonable RP wise, too. You wouldn't be able to continue with Barbarian levels, though.
Barbarians who become Lawful lose the ability to rage.
Wow, how did I never notice that? And why are Barbarians more restricted in their alignment than Monks? That makes very little sense, but whatever.
"A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."
Wow, how did I never notice that? And why are Barbarians more restricted in their alignment than Monks? That makes very little sense, but whatever.
"A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."
Short answer, it's a holdover from older D&D editions and 1970's mindset. The basic old school reasoning was that by becoming Lawful a Barbarian becomes tamed and domesticated, thus no longer having the wild passion or flat out ignorance to sustain a rage. In real world and game balance terms, it doesn't make perfect sense. However again, the core tenets of this game stretch back to the Gygaxian 70's and most of them aren't applicable to real life.
-Sorry for the side tangent.
another big +1 for sacred servant of ragathiel! rage (sub)domain for the win. i'm not sure if it's PFS legal but stacking oath of vengeance with it is great too (makes up for lost smites). also, +1 for the lesser celestial totem- got love getting extra hp back from your swift action heals :)
In addition, but probably less effective than the ones already mentioned, half celestials and half fiends get smite, regardless of class.
another-another +1 for the ragathiel SS pally, celestial totem + fey foundling + tiefling FCB means you're pretty much never gonna die (lay on hands is swift to use on yourself, and there's a 1st-level spell that lets you LoH yourself as an immediate action).
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Wow, how did I never notice that? And why are Barbarians more restricted in their alignment than Monks? That makes very little sense, but whatever.
If you think of Rage requiring the character to tap into the elemental power of Chaos, then it is no different than Lawful clerics being unable to cast Chaotic spells.
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Wow, how did I never notice that? And why are Barbarians more restricted in their alignment than Monks? That makes very little sense, but whatever.If you think of Rage requiring the character to tap into the elemental power of Chaos, then it is no different than Lawful clerics being unable to cast Chaotic spells.
Then why can lawful Fighters, Rangers, Bloodragers, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Inquisitors rage while being lawful? Why is it only the Barbarian that is limited in this fashion?
tossed together a 'big hit' rageadin:
PALADIN OF RAAAAAAGE
tiefling sacred servant (ragathiel [rage]) paladin 20
str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)
traits: ??? / ???
divine bond: +5 LoH/day
rage powers:
15 - lesser celestial totem
19 - reckless abandon
feats:
1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Power Attack
5 - Channel Smite
7 - Unsactioned Knowledge (???, ???, ???, ???)
9 - Vital Strike
11 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Devastating Strike
15 - Furious Finish
17 - Greater Vital Strike
19 - Greater Channel Smite
WEAPON: +5 furious courageous conductive holy greatsword
greatsword (2d6) -> GVS (8d6), +7 enhancement, +15 PA, +18 STR, +6 devastating strike, +2d6 holy, +10d6 conductive (LoH), +10d6 channel smite, +40 smite, +11 destructive smite
Pop furious focus to deal 222-277 damage (145 + 22d6 (77 avg, 132 max)) before buffs and other gear. You can then cure your fatigue via swift action LoH (fatigue mercy) on yourself at the start of the next turn.
Unfortunately the whole combo eats 5 LoH uses (2 conductive, 2 channel smite, 1 to heal fatigue) each, so this is definitely a 'nova' tactic. Of course since that would only work on things weak to positive energy (see: undead), you wouldn't need to bust it out often unless you were fighting the whispering tyrant or something.
also, between FF, celestial totem, and the tiefling FCB, you can heal yourself for a whopping 10d6+60 (20 fey foundling, 20 celestial totem, 20 tiefling FCB) every turn as a swift action--or immediate action i you use hero's defiance. enjoy never dying.
a more normal attackign style with that might be:
rage (free) + close (move) + vital strike (standard) + furious focus: while it makes you fatigued, it ends your rage (removing the AC penalty).
LoH (fatigue, swift) + full attack as normal
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Chevalier prestige class grants smite evil at the end of its (short) 3 level progression. Fully accessible by a pure barbarian (to that point).
If 3rd party stuff us allowed, a Maenad's Ordered Rage ability allows them to take Barbarian levels even if they are Lawful.
Since this is Advice, not Rules ...
Since there's no reason that Barbarians should have an alignment restriction at all, you should just be able to do it. Talk to your GM about flushing the ludicrous, pointless restriction.
Wow, how did I never notice that? And why are Barbarians more restricted in their alignment than Monks? That makes very little sense, but whatever.
"A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."
Because alignment, and alignment restrictions, make no sense. They're completely arbitrary and serve no useful purpose.
besides smite (and all it's oddly-named cousins), favored enemy (outsider specifics), different planes (attached to said outsiders), detect [alignment] spells and class abilities, protection/circle from [alignment] spells...
besides smite (and all it's oddly-named cousins), favored enemy (outsider specifics), different planes (attached to said outsiders), detect [alignment] spells and class abilities, protection/circle from [alignment] spells...
No, those included.
Since this is Advice, not Rules ...
Since there's no reason that Barbarians should have an alignment restriction at all, you should just be able to do it. Talk to your GM about flushing the ludicrous, pointless restriction.
In the defence of others, however; RAW is a good baseline to give advice by since it's by far more expectable than a given houserule.
Particularly in the event of the GM who would say no, and I'm taking your little dog too.Because only Barbarians get true Rage. All the others are just posers.
Keep in mind that when Rage was written, almost none of those other options existed except as a spell.
Well, excluding the Ranger and Fighter options given, one can always point to a certain creative director's repeated insistence that deities can do whatever you need them to. Granting something inherently chaotic while being lawful seems less of a stretch than a wide swath of narrative.
Semi-same argument for Bloodrager - except with the heritage involved.Fighters and Rangers - clearly just got really sick of being called sub-par so often.
Silliness on my part aside - as others have given, SS is brilliant. Given the slowed progress on the domain though, I wish to point out the value of the theologian archetype, being at Character level-1 for powers doesn't sting so much at -3. Bonus points for Ragathiel meaning you have EWP: Bastard Sword with the dip.
besides smite (and all it's oddly-named cousins), favored enemy (outsider specifics), different planes (attached to said outsiders), detect [alignment] spells and class abilities, protection/circle from [alignment] spells...No, those included.
a lot of those are very useful though. the protection spells can give you extra saves vs. mind control/possession, as well as decent combat benefits. as well as one being the rangers core combat mechanic, and the other being... the entire paladin class.
i cant say i agree that they should just be gone. i CAN say that players and DMs who flagrantly exploit the alignment system (such as DMs' almost fetishistic requirement that all paladins fall no exceptions 1000 years dungeon) should take a boot to the teeth.
Short answer, it's a holdover from older D&D editions and 1970's mindset.
Pretty sure that is not accurate. Barbarian rage being lost on becoming lawful was introduced with 3.0, along with the actual Rage ability.
Pre 3.0 Barbarians did not even have a rage ability, except a few 'kits' from the old 2.0 complete books and even then it was nothing like now.
for a bloodrager/pally i'd go (vengeance)pally 3 / arcane bloodrager 17
i say arcane because those free buffs on raging are just too tasty to pass up, but any will do (destined is hilarious with the fate's favored trait). oath of vengeance is for extra smites by eating your (piddly at high levels) lay on hands.
on the flipside, i'd go BR 4/pally 16 for a more divine-centric one.
also, since BR doesnt have the alignment nonsense, it's free to go with paladin.