Hey folks. I've been working on a Combat Oracle to begin play in a new game. Currently I've devised a Half-Orc Oracle of Metal (Lvl 4). I would like review a feedback on any recommended alterations. I'm open to feats, powers, equipment, spells, most everything. I'd prefer to stick Half-Orc with Metal Mystery (to save rewriting character background, lol) but I'll seriously consider for a good reason.
I could have a future interest in Craft Arms and Armor, so that may be a consider.
Rolled Stats: 18,17,16,16,15,11
Half-Orc Oracle 4 (Metal)
LN Medium Humanoid (Human, Orc)
Init +3
Senses Darkvision 60ft
Perception +0
Speed 30ft
Str 20 (+2 Racial)
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 16
Skills Undecided
Languages Human, Orc, Tien, Elven
Traits Chosen Child (+900 gp), Artisan (+2 to Craft)
BAB +3
Str Bonus +5
Weapon Orc Double-Axe (1d8/1d8 x3)
Normal
1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (To Hit +6)
Damage 6-13 x2
Power Attack
1d8+7 / 1d8+7 (To Hit +5)
Damage 8-15 x2
Lead Blades
2d6+5 / 1d8+5 (To Hit +6)
Damage 7-17 x2
PA & LB
2d6+7 / 2d6+7 (To Hit +5)
Damage 9-19 x2
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 38 (4d8)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
Defensive Abilities Orc Ferocity;
Armor Lemelar (Steel)
Weight Medium, Bonus +6, Max Dex +3, Check -3, Speed 30ft
Power Attack
Two-Weapon Fighting
Endurance
One Feat Undecided
Lead Blades
Heat Metal
All Others Undecided
Armor Mastery (Ex) You become more maneuverable while wearing armor. You can move at your normal speed in medium armor that is made of metal. This does not grant proficiency in armor.
One Revelation Undecided
Shaman's Apprentice Only the most stalwart survive the years of harsh treatment that an apprenticeship to an orc shaman entails. Half-orcs with this trait gain Endurance as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the intimidating trait.
Orc Ferocity Once per day, when a half-orc is brought below 0 hit points but not killed, he can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying.
Weapon Familiarity Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.
Modified BAB and noted one Feat is not yet decided. (Endurance was free from Racial Traits)
For the purposes of Power Attack, is each attack of a double weapon considered 1-Hand (+2 Dmg) or 2-Hand(+3 Dmg)?
As to Power Attack they are considered one handed and light.
I'm looking at the stats and they seem ok, though why intelligence over wisdom?
I'm not sure you are going to like that axe. You can use it with 1.5x strength and Power Attack, but it is only a 1d8 x3 weapon. If you two weapon fight with it you get 1x strength and Power Attack with the primary head and 0.5x strength and Power Attack with the secondary head. I want to like it because it is cool, but I would rather use a spear than this, at least I can brace or throw a spear.
If you are going to use a weapon with Power Attack just use a two handed weapon, it works much better. You are also burning a revelation just to use it. If you are taking Skill at Arms to get the Orc Double Axe just use a better martial weapon.
===OFFENSE===
BAB +4
Str Bonus +5Normal
1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (To Hit +7)
Damage 6-13 x2Power Attack
1d8+7 / 1d8+7 (To Hit +6)
Damage 8-15 x2Lead Blades
2d6+5 / 1d8+5 (To Hit +7)
Damage 7-17 x2PA & LB
2d6+7 / 2d6+7 (To Hit +6)
Damage 9-19 x2
BAB +3. Pretty important distinction.
Assuming a normal double axe (not magical or masterwork)
Single Attack: +8, 1d8+7 (power attack: +7, 1d8+10)
Full Attack: +6, 1d8+5; +6, 1d8+2. (Power attack: +5, 1d8+7; +5, 1d8+3)
You're a 3/4 BAB class with no special attack bonus to compensate for the -2 to hit, and no damage bonus to take advantage of two-weapon fighting. Also, you're not proficient with the double axe.
I really, really recommend going with the Falchion or Greataxe instead.
If you are taking Skill at Arms to get the Orc Double Axe just use a better martial weapon.
Good point, I'd need to take Skill at Arms (was thinking Half-Orc got proficiency but thats not true, doh!). Unless I take the Great Axe, I would need to take Skill at Arms anyways for the more powerful 2-Hand weapons. Eventually I'll need Skill at Arms anyways to take Heavy Armor once I can afford mithral.
If you aren't going to go all out on it, it is kind of a waste, since two handed weapons will do about the same damage and take less feats.
Originally I had intended Skill at Arms and Great Sword. But it gets weird once you consider Lead Blades. With Lead Blades and Power Attack it looks like this.
Great Sword 3d6+10 (+7 Str, +3 PA)
Double Orc-Axe 4d6+14 (+10 Str, +4 PA)
Admittedly I would take a -3 To-Hit for the Axe and only -1 for the Great Sword. But I would get two dice rolls so my overall chance of hitting goes up. For AC 16 my change to hit with the Sword is 60%. To hit with one side of of the Axe is 75%.
I'm looking at the stats and they seem ok, though why intelligence over wisdom?
Additional Skills which become important if I intend to take Armor and Weapon crafting.
BAB +3. Pretty important distinction.
Oops, typo. Will correct.
I really, really recommend going with the Falchion or Greataxe instead.
A couple of people have said Falchion. For pure damage it only jumps to 2d6 for Lead Blades. Great Axe and Great Sword jump to 3d6.
I think you're vastly overestimating the Lead Blades spell. Not that your numbers are wrong, just in how often the spell will be up and in how much bigger those numbers really are.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions on weapons. I'm going to give it some thought before I decide. So here are some additional questions:
1) I'm still missing one feat. What additional feat would be best? Cleave? Furious Focus?
2) What feat would best replace Two-Weapon Fighting feat?
3) Are there any spells that are critical for a Oracle? I've never played one before.
4) Would it be better to take Skill at Arms now, or wait until I can afford mithral heavy armor?
the nature mystery(or what ever) has a spot that allows you to use charisma instead of dex for AC, nature's whispers. this would allow you to spend that 17 or 16 else where. nature also has a bunch of other stuff like the ability to steal poeple's life force for temp HP.
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Heavy armor may never be worth your while. You are already proficient in Mithril Breastplate, while is almost as protective as heavy armor and does not hinder mobility. You want to be mobile.
He has the revelation that allows him to move at full speed in medium metal armor, so mithral full plate would indeed help him. That said, I would wait until you could afford the armor to take the revelation.
Honestly not having looked at the oracle I can tell you twf is a feat trap if you can't fully commit to it
I don't mean to be offensive, but from what I've seen I believe you are a newer player, and I hope that any advice I give is helpful
I'm not saying that what I know is best, and not all my advice will fit what you want but I ask politely that you consider it
If your looking for just combat effectiveness, there is a oracle type that gives you an animal companion, albeit at a -4 level limit, but boon companion fixes that, and having a lion/tiger or an allosaurus or something is extremely effective and riding a tree around is really nice
If you want a two handed weapon, falchion is great, and improved crit will help loads with damage output
If you go with the animal companion path you may consider a lance and spirited charge stuff, but that's mounted combat and a different discussion
For your traits, I HIGHLY recommend fates favored and sacred tattoo
Both are decent traits alone, as fates favored works with custom magic items and anything that gives you a luck bonus
Sacred tattoo is a great use of a trait
I'm sorry if I used the wrong names for the traits or anything like that as it has been a bit since I made my half-Orc witch, and I haven't looked super heavily into oracle
I ask that nobody gets upset if I'm giving false information, as I said I not 100% on all this stuff and it's just me throwing ideas out
I think the idea with heavy armor was that with Armor Mastery, a Mithral Full-Plate won't hinder his mobility and will still grant huge Dex benefits.
Personally, if I had Lead Blades and Keen Edge as bonus spells and free martial weapon proficiency, I would find it impossible not to grab a nice, big, high critical weapon like a Nodachi.
1) Combat reflexes. This gets you up to three additional AoOs.
(snip)
2) Unfortunately, an Oracle is often expected to be able to cast various utility spells, such as Lesser Restoration. This assumes there is not also a Cleric in the party.
(snip)
3) At first level some good options are: Command or Murderous Command, Divine Favor (especially with the Fate's Favored trait), and a few others.
1) If I drop 2WF then I'll have two available feat slots, not just one.
2) I will be the only healer which is what prompted the Oracle choice to begin with. But the party has survived since level 1 without one, so its mostly just a "nice to have thing" which is why I'm not making it my focus.
3) The Divine Favor/Fate's Favored is a clever combo, I like it. As mentioned earlier I'm level 4, so level 2 spells are also up for the taking.
4) I don't mean to be offensive, but from what I've seen I believe you are a newer player, and I hope that any advice I give is helpful.
(snip)
5) If your looking for just combat effectiveness, there is a oracle type that gives you an animal companion, albeit at a -4 level limit, but boon companion fixes that, and having a lion/tiger or an allosaurus or something is extremely effective and riding a tree around is really nice
(snip)
6) For your traits, I HIGHLY recommend fates favored and sacred tattoo
4) No offense taken but its not true. By newer, I am new to the forums but not the game. Played since 2E but with that comes the problem that without referencing rules directly I tend to blur rules from older editions into newer stuff and blur rules together that aren't supposed to be. However, I have not played any of the Pathfinder only classes like oracle, so I'm weaker in those areas.
5) I read lots of tutorials and forums posts before picking metal, and you will find its one of the main ones generally considered to be best for combat. Others includes Battle, Wood, and Ancestors.
6) I think Fate's Favored is clever and I'm gonna take a look. The party doesn't really have any front line fighters (two rogues, zen archer, alchemist) so I felt that the Orc Ferocity would be more advantageous that save bonus. I expect to be taking the majority of the hits.
7) I think the idea with heavy armor was that with Armor Mastery, a Mithral Full-Plate won't hinder his mobility and will still grant huge Dex benefits.
8) Personally, if I had Lead Blades and Keen Edge as bonus spells and free martial weapon proficiency, I would find it impossible not to grab a nice, big, high critical weapon like a Nodachi.
7) Exactly correct. At Level 5, Mithral Full Plate (if you can afford it) is AC 9, Dex 4, Check -2, Speed 30ft. Its a very nice choice. But you would need Skill at Arms for proficiency. And since I gained Endurance as a free racial feat I can even sleep in Heavy Armor without suffering fatigue. Hopefully I won't need armor suddenly in the middle of the night, but I've never played with this particular GM before.
8) To be honest, Nodachi was in my top 5 weapon choices and I haven't discounted it yet.
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Orc Ferocity doesn't really compare to +2 to all saves, along with pumping a number of your spells, like Divine Favor, giving you an additional +1 to attack and weapon damage rolls.
Making your save against those "save of suck/die" spells will make you a better front-liner, as you will likely be the one targeted with them.
Shaman's Apprentice is good swap for Intimidating, as well.
To be honest, Nodachi was in my top 5 weapon choices and I haven't discounted it yet.
Whatever works thematically... Nodachi, Falchion, even Falcata if you want to spend a feat to get some nice gory crits with solid frequency. Getting Improved Critical as a long duration bonus spell at level 6 says 'USE ME!'
Bardiche and Nodachi are probably the strongest statistically. Greatsword or Earthbreaker are also worth considering if you have all martial weapons. If you decide not to ever take Skill at Arms you have Falchion, Longspear and Greataxe which are all solid if not optimal. I played a Half-Orc Battle Oracle as the main divine caster in a group for 6 levels, so let me look and see what spells I used all the time...
Guidance, Detect Magic, Create Water
Ant Haul, Hide From Undead, Shield of Faith
Grace, Lesser Restoration, Silence, Resist Energy
Magic Vestament, Greater Magic Weapon, Prayer, Water Breathing, Speak With Dead
Freedom of Movement, Sending
You don't get Enlarge Person, Fog Cloud or Wall of Fire, but I used those a lot also.
Remove Blindness/Deafness is important to get a scroll or preferably a potion of, nothing is more debilitating than permanent blindness, and the problem shows up 2 levels before the solution.
Also spells like Magic Vestament and Greater Magic Weapon are sorta binary, not worth knowing before level 8, almost mandatory by level 12.
If you intend to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor next level you want to invest maximum ranks into the Spellcraft skill. That one skill will sub for every other crafting skill so while it may be good to also take Craft (Armor) for example, look at the mundane crafting DCs and stop putting in ranks when you can make everything by taking 10. You probably want Craft Wondrous Item too, so many wondrous items are considered mandatory as you level that it will save you and the party quite a bit of money and it will get you familiar with the way crafting works before you start on the weapons and armor.
Sorry for the delay. I have been sick past two days and couldn't work on updating the sheet. But here is the updated version where I have incorporated several of the suggestions above. I look forward to any additional comments or suggestions.
I decided to go Skill at Arms so I can be backup archer if the situation calls for it. It also lets me carry a wide assortment of weapons or I can use what I find. Since I am the only person proficient in martial weapons this will broaden the range of usable enchanted weapons I may happen across.
Change Log
- Traits: Changed Artisan to Fate's Favored
- Skills: Added Skill List
- Offense: Changed Weapon to Masterwork Nodachi
- Offense: Added Masterwork Composite Longbow (+5)
- Feat: Removed Two Weapon Fighting
- Feat: Added Furious Focus
- Feat: Added Iron Hide
- Spells: Add Spell List (Based on recommendations)
- Racial Traits: Changed Orc Ferocity to Sacred Tattoo
Half-Orc Oracle 4 (Metal)
LN Medium Humanoid (Human, Orc)
Init +3
Senses Darkvision 60ft
Perception +0
Speed 30ft
Languages Human, Orc, Tien, Elven
Traits Chosen Child (+900 gp), Fate's Favored (+1 to Luck Bonuses)
Attributes
- Str 20 (+2 Racial)
- Dex 17
- Con 16
- Int 15
- Wis 11
- Cha 16
Skills - 24 Ranks
- 1(+6) Appraise (Int)
- 1(+7) Bluff (Cha)
- 1(+6) Craft - weapons (Int)
- 1(+6) Craft - armor (Int)
- 1(+7) Diplomacy (Cha)
- 1(+7) Disable Device (Dex)
- 4(+7) Heal (Wis)
- 4(+10) Intimidate (Cha)
- 2(+7) Knowledge - history (Int)
- 2(+7) Knowledge - planes (Int)
- 2(+7) Knowledge - religion (Int)
- 1(+4) Profession - performer (Wis)
- 1(+4) Sense Motive (Wis)
- 4(+9) Spellcraft (Int)
BAB +3
Str Bonus +5
Weapon: Masterwork Nodachi 1d10+13 (To-Hit +9)
Weapon: Masterwork Composite Longbow (+5) 1d8+8 (To-Hit +7)
AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 17 (+6 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Natural)
HP 38 (4d8)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6 (+2 Luck Bonus to All)
Armor Lemelar (Steel)
Weight Medium, Bonus +6, Max Dex +3, Check -3, Speed 30ft
Endurance
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Iron Hide
Level 0: Create Water, Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic
Level 1: Lead Blades (Bonus), Cure Light Wounds (Bonus), Ant Haul, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith
Level 2: Heat Metal (Bonus), Cure Moderate Wounds (Bonus), Lessor Restoration
Armor Mastery You become more maneuverable while wearing armor. You can move at your normal speed in medium armor that is made of metal. This does not grant proficiency in armor.
Skill at Arms You gain proficiency in all martial weapons and heavy armor.
Shaman's Apprentice Only the most stalwart survive the years of harsh treatment that an apprenticeship to an orc shaman entails. Half-orcs with this trait gain Endurance as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the intimidating trait.
Sacred Tattoo Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
Weapon Familiarity Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.
That looks much more solid. Low perception and initiative is a respectable weakness and you seem to be good at what you do.
Your build looks good. There's a few choices I would not make but they are more personal preference.
Trait: 900gp one time only at start is nice.
I'd consider:
+2 initiative for your entire career?
Perception (the #1 skill) as a class skill +1?Feat: +1 natural armor is decent.
I'd consider:
Improved Init. Because going first is made of win.
Extra revelation: Dance of the Blades. 40 base movement speed all the time? Not too shabby. This can be put off since most Metal revelations only get better later and if you take all the good ones up front, you are left with meh later. YMMV.
Toughness. Yes, toughness. If I play a low-init melee without a shield, I think a little extra hp doesn't hurt.
If I were more ranged focused, I'd also consider Keen Scent. Because Pheromone arrows are nifty. Works really good with animal companions as well.Regarding init: with the trait (+2) and feat (+4) your +3 init jumps to +9.
Good luck and have fun!
Two things about the gold. First, its a story element just like the craft and profession skills on my sheet. Second, if I was starting with the gold listed for level 4 character wealth I'd agree completely. But I'm only receiving 200 starting gold and I'd like slightly nicer equipment at level 4. Even the lvl 4 NPC gold (1650) would have been sufficient, lol.
Dance of Blades will be my 7th level revelation for sure. By then, I'll also get the bonus for attack roles.
Toughness and Improved Init will probably be later feats as I get closer to level 10. Toughness has a larger pay off by then and for initiative, the "go first to win" doesn't become as big a thing until higher levels. Right not I don't have any abilities that end combat in a single round or two.