Spell levels and 20th level


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

The more I think about it, the more I think that PCs aren't meant ot reach 20th level.

I mean, Pathfinder created capstones, which implies someone is supposed to get there, but spell progressions are weird about it.

9-level casters get a new spell level every other level. But there are no 10th level spells at level 19 (or level 20 for spontaneous casters)

6-level casters get a new spell level every third level. But there are no 7th level spells at 19th level.

4-level casters get a new spell level every fourth level. But there are no 5th level spells at 17th level.

To me, this really says that PCs are meant to peter out around 17th level: 20th level exists so you can have an NPC BBEG who challenges the whole party, but doesn't have a 'next tier' of spells in his spellbook the wizard will never get to play with.


I don't think levels beyond 20th are needed. I always looked at 13+ levels as the epic levels. I don't think 10th level spells are needed (nor wanted by me), it is nice to have a few levels to play with the 9th level spells before hitting 20.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Arnwolf wrote:
I don't think 10th level spells are needed (nor wanted by me)

I'm not saying there should be: how do you top wish and miracle?

I'm just saying that 19th wizard level breaks a pattern, which says there's probably a reason.


I just blame tradition and poorly-thought-out character advancement.


Ross Byers wrote:
Arnwolf wrote:
I don't think 10th level spells are needed (nor wanted by me)

I'm not saying there should be: how do you top wish and miracle?

I'm just saying that 19th wizard level breaks a pattern, which says there's probably a reason.

I don't have the psychological need for patterns or symmetry.


High levels suffer from a lack of design focus. This falls in the same category as someone deciding Clerics not getting an endcap was a good idea.

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