| Bacon666 |
Cheers all
I'm theoth crafting a dwarfen couple to run the workshop in a magic shop who claimes to craft special order items faster than anyone else...
2 dwarfes lv 12 any paizo material (20 pointbuy if needed)
I'm thinking cleric(forgemasterb5/magus(soulforge)7 with cooperative crafting...
Can some1 think of a couple who craft faster?
Which other feats can help speed up the crafting process?
| CraziFuzzy |
That's pretty much it. Those are really the only two class/archetypes that are focused on crafting. From there, it's just a matter of boosting the skill ranks and bonuses with skill focus feats and such.
Feat: Prodigy
Feat: Skill Focus
Trait (Social): Artisan (+2 single craft skill)
Trait (Magic): Spark of Creation (+1 craft magic, -5% cost magic)
Trait (Faith): Patient Calm (use 12 when taking 10 on craft)
others, not as good:
Trait (Magic): Bladed Magic (+1 craft magic or masterwork weapons)
Trait (Magic): Magic Crafter (+1 craft magic, +1 appraise)
Trait (Magic): Hedge Magician (-5% cost magic)
Trait (Magic): Eldritch Smith (-5% cost metal or stone)
| Dremaa |
Cheers all
I'm theoth crafting a dwarfen couple to run the workshop in a magic shop who claimes to craft special order items faster than anyone else...
2 dwarfes lv 12 any paizo material (20 pointbuy if needed)
I'm thinking cleric(forgemasterb5/magus(soulforge)7 with cooperative crafting...
Can some1 think of a couple who craft faster?
Which other feats can help speed up the crafting process?
Having one be a wizard with the arcane builder discovery might be better, as the bonus can apply to wondrous items once and you can then craft those 25% faster. The magical aptitude feat would also increase spellcraft by 2/4. You could also make this character an elf, as they get a +2 to spellcraft checks. Though from an RP aspect, this might not be realistic.
| Gregory Connolly |
I would probably make one a Forgemaster/Wizard/Mystic Theurge 5/5/2 and the other a Soulforger/Wizard 11/1. Dwarf Wizard favored class bonus is perfect for this concept, and getting Valet Familiars on both of them will cut your time in half again. I would also make sure to grab every item creation feat between the two of them. Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Construct, Craft Wand, Inscribe Magic Tattoo on the Cleric and Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Forge Ring, Craft Rod, and Craft Staff on the Magus.
| scadgrad |
I think the human Arcanamirium Crafter Universalist Archetype is the better deal guys. He gets the extra feat at 1st level, and trades the terrible Hand of the Apprentice for Craft Wondrous at 3rd level. Obviously give him the Valet familiar and Magical Heritage trait. Focus your skills on Spellcraft rather than the crafting skills since it will be your default skill for most items you make (assuming you'll make more Wondrous Items than anything else). Don't worry about actually crafting MWK weapons, simply cast Masterwork Transformation on them and go about your business.
| CraziFuzzy |
I think the human Arcanamirium Crafter Universalist Archetype is the better deal guys. He gets the extra feat at 1st level, and trades the terrible Hand of the Apprentice for Craft Wondrous at 3rd level. Obviously give him the Valet familiar and Magical Heritage trait. Focus your skills on Spellcraft rather than the crafting skills since it will be your default skill for most items you make (assuming you'll make more Wondrous Items than anything else). Don't worry about actually crafting MWK weapons, simply cast Masterwork Transformation on them and go about your business.
I think you are talking about the Arcane Crafter archetype - if so, that's pretty weak compared to the aforementioned soulforger or forgemaster archetypes. All it's giving you is a single creation feat, and a +2 bonus when using metamagic feats with your crafting. It does noting to affect crafting TIME (which was what the OP was primarily asking for). Both the soulforger and forgemaster's 'Master Smith (Ex)' abilities drastically reduce the time it takes to craft many items (any metal for the forgemaster, and weapons or armor for the soul forger). The Forgemaster also gains Craft Magic Arms and Armor as a bonus feat at 3rd level. The Soul Forger adds his level to craft checks to make armor, shields and weapons.
The only market where a wizard based crafter is going to be superior is where the cleric or magus crafters don't have the spell required for the item - though in those cases, any old wizard can be hired that does.
| Suma3da |
Also may want to take a look at the Impossible Bloodline for Sorcerers from the Champions of Balance book. They get to ignore prereqs needed to craft items
| scadgrad |
Except that the Arcane Crafter (Hero Lab calls them Arcanamirium Crafter) gets a Valet familiar, thus cutting his crafting time in half for ALL magic items (the Dwarves get a boost on weapons and armor in one case, metal items in the other) since he doubles the GP value you can do per day. Neither of those Dwarven characters get a Valet familiar which is a tremendous asset and a freebie Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd levels is very, very good.
| Bacon666 |
I really like to add valet familiars... However:
Does cooperative crafting work with more than 2 crafters?
Cooperative crafting states that you can assist another crafter...
Crafter A who's the first mentioned cleric 5/magus 7 craft a value of 3000 gp/day. A valet could raise this to 4000 go/day...
If crafter B is the same build can this raise the total to 8000 gp/day? Or can crafter A choose between gaining 3000 gp/day from crafter B and 1000 gp/day from valet?
| CraziFuzzy |
I really like to add valet familiars... However:
Does cooperative crafting work with more than 2 crafters?
Cooperative crafting states that you can assist another crafter...
Crafter A who's the first mentioned cleric 5/magus 7 craft a value of 3000 gp/day. A valet could raise this to 4000 go/day...
If crafter B is the same build can this raise the total to 8000 gp/day? Or can crafter A choose between gaining 3000 gp/day from crafter B and 1000 gp/day from valet?
There-in lies the major problem. These rules are not well spelled out - and I think the reason they aren't spelled out, is that crafting is just not very popular in typical pathfinder play. Typically, it seems magic items are simply available at shops, and the only reason to craft them yourself is to save on the gp. This, combined with loose downtime management means crafting time is also of little importance in most games.
If you genuinely want to nail down how to get the best crafting team together, you're going to have to make some house rule decisions on your own. Personally, I would try to stack some diminishing returns in with cooperative crafting. Too many hands on a single item would start to get in the way of progress.
| scadgrad |
Regarding the Soulforger, he already has a Bonded Item and since the Magus Arcana says that it works like the Wizard ability (which prohibits having both iirc, but maybe that's not the case), it's sketchy at best that he could have a familiar. I don't believe this has been FAQd so by all means, if your DM allows it, go for it.
In the above example by Bacon666, the cooperating character would increase your top speed to 6000 per day, not 8000 per day due to the the added multiplier rule in Pathfinder.
As I have stated though, this character only gets this enhanced speed when crafting metal items or weapon and armor.
The Arcane Crafter goes at 3000 per day, up to 4000 per day if you allow another cooperative Crafter (which I agree with CraziFuzzy, I don't think it's legal as it states "another").
Now, I'll agree to disagree that the Arcane Crafter is better or inferior to the normal Wizard in regards to magic item creation (he has one more craft feat though and that is indisputable), but I remain firmly convinced that the Wizard is vastly superior than any other character at crafting magic items, constructs, oozes, or what have you. For example, let's just assume that we're talking about a single 12th level wizard. He gets the following feats that the Cleric/Magus never gets:
Craft Rod (caster level 9)
Craft Staff (caster level 11)
Those multi class levels don't add together so you can never make those items.
Meanwhile, if a customer comes into your shop asking for a Handy Haversack (or other items which you are only average at crafting), you work at 1000 + 1000 (by taking the +5 penalty to enhance speed) +1000 from your own Valet (if your DM allows it). So at that point, you're on par with the Wizard. If the Valet is disallowed (which it should be barring a FAQ that I missed), you're at 2000/day for almost all of the meaningful Wondrous Items.
Over at Bob's & Tom's House of Human Wizard Shenanigans
Both Bob & Tom have virtually every Craft Feat (8 if they wish, counting Scribe Scroll, because they got a Freebie Craft feat at 3rd level). Both of them have Valet Familiars helping out, while their 4, 6th level Lesser Simulacrum (all of which have cooperative crafting of course, since Bob & Tom took it at first level) make items as well. Of course this would require a bit of Diplomacy since you don't control the Lesser Simulacrum, but one can assume that a 12th level Wizard can very easily manage an 18 or 19 by taking 10 on Diplo (their Simulacrum probably have -1 or -2 CHA mods).
So, once they've spent a couple of hours prepping stuff, they get on with their day and craft the following:
Bob and his Valet craft 3000 on virtually ANY magical item, casting Fabricate as needed.
Tom also does 3000 and may cast Fabricate as well.
Bob's 2 Lesser Simulacrums cooperate with each other to craft 3000 worth of whatever items with feats of 6th level or less (i.e. no Rods, no Staffs).
Tom's 2 Lesser Simulacrums cooperate with each other to craft 3000 in the same fashion.
Total progress per day:
12,000 of virtually any item.
Note that the 2 dwarves in their shop can manage this same rate on metal items and weapons and armor, so they can do some respectable work themselves, but will fall way behind when making ioun stones, cloaks of protection, staffs & rods of all sorts no crafting meta magic rods at the dwarf shop), etc.
Note #2: If the DM can be convinced to allow 13th Level Wizard crafters, we're all of the sudden in crazy town since both Bob and Tom will upgrade their Lesser Simulacrums to real Simulacrums and at some point, thus having an entire staff of Simulacrum working on stuff.
Note #3: Yes, there is a cost for making those lesser Simulacrum (300 gp each), but Bob and Tom were clever and both took False Focus at 1st level (since they didn't really need Improved Initiative or whatever) and can recoup this cost by Fabricating masterwork armor and other items costing less than 300 gp for free and of course, once they have 5th level spells, they simply create the gems required via Major Creation. Bob and Tom can also offer services that the poor Dwarves can only dream of since they both have access to Planar Binding which brings Efrit magic into play.
| CraziFuzzy |
Regarding the Soulforger, he already has a Bonded Item and since the Magus Arcana says that it works like the Wizard ability (which prohibits having both iirc, but maybe that's not the case), it's sketchy at best that he could have a familiar. I don't believe this has been FAQd so by all means, if your DM allows it, go for it.
Certainly not FAQ'd, and not really discussed much (a single thread on the forums here). The Bladebound magus archetype specifically states that you cannot take the familiar arcana - soul forger has no such language. I don't believe the familiar would work as a bonded item (no extra spell slot), but the other support capabilities of the familiar should be available.
Regarding caster levels, I did not agree with the above multiclass of a Soul Forger and a Forgemaster. I feel the couple would be far more powerful is one was a single class Soul Forger, wile the other a single class Forgemaster. This would allow access to the highest spell levels. This would allow crafting of high level divine and arcane items.