We are starting an epic level campaign and will be starting at level 20.
I have been just browsing different options and found the Hellknight Signifier. I love the idea of a Hellknight and their order, and mixing the spell-casting with heavy armor seems cool.
So, I decided I am going to go a Tiefling Wizard 9, Fighter 1, Hellknight Signifier 10 and it sounded like a good concept at first but now I am hitting a wall. The level of fighter is to lighten the entry fee into hellknight.
I am looking at possible combat strategies and spell/ability combinations but nothing really pops. I like the idea of the Deminsional Dervish tree and I have the spells to make it work but this character is going to be very sub-par in melee. The BaB of this character is going to be 12.
So am I simply looking at a wizard in heavy armor with diminished spellcasting and some fluff abilities? Is there any way I can make this character have any worth-while contribution to combat standing beside a level 20 fighter and a level 20 magus?
I have already committed to this build in our GM's eyes so if you guys can offer any suggestions on spells/feats/gear/strategies to make this an effective (or at least not worthless) build that would be great. I love the RP and fluff but that's all I got at this point...
|
try doing this, go with EK, get early access to it (very early actually lvl 3) and go signifier 10, EK 8, wiz 1, ftr 1.
That'll get you great BAB, you're two levels behind in casting (if you're going home game, you can add some schools or other stuff to compensate for it.) and even if can't, at lvl 18? 19? you'll be casting lvl 9s anyhow, so there's that going for you.
I like that idea and it sounds great until you consider that it requires wizard 5 to get to either Eldritch Knight or Hellknight. So the best I could hope for with that mindset is Wiz 5, Ftr 1, EK 4, Signifier 10.
This would help somewhat over what I was initially going for though, thank you.
You don't need to go up to Wizard 5 for the prereq. It's somewhat cheesy, but it's possible to use spell like abilities such as Aasimar's Daylight to qualify for early entry at Wizard 1/Fighter 1.
Even if my GM were to allow this, it is integral to the character I have in mind to be a tiefling. A tiefling has a spell-like ability of Darkness, a second level spell. Does not meet prerequisites.
The new cheeze is to take Divination wizard level 1 and use the clairvoyance disk or whatever to qualify for EK at level 3.
I love it! That will let me actually do some damage. Texting the GM now for approval. I will let you know when I get an answer, hopefully tonight.
just remind him that you'll be missing two caster levels =D
Speaking of which, don't forget to consider the Magical Knack trait. Won't help with spell progession, but it'll keep your CL on par with a full caster for spell save DC and effects.
Even if my GM were to allow this, it is integral to the character I have in mind to be a tiefling. A tiefling has a spell-like ability of Darkness, a second level spell. Does not meet prerequisites.
If it will help with your GM, you could show him the FAQ.
I don't personally like it in my games, but officially SLA's meet the PrC prereq.
I like the Magical Knack Trait, I was looking for something like that.
Alas, the GM ruled that a spell-like ability does not meet the prerequisite for a prestige class.
Nonetheless a wiz 5, ftr 1, ek 4, hk 10, with the Magical Knack trait gets me more in the direction that I wanted to go. BAB 14 with a CL 20. Not too bad, and because ek counts as fighter levels I can take weapon specialization. Also the 4 levels of d10 hit die instead of d6 certainly doesn't hurt. I trade the bonus wizard feat for a bonus fighter feat.
I am thinking a Greatsword build with a spell-storing greatsword. Use Dimensional Savant to teleport in, whack them 3 times (flanking with myself for +2 atk to help with lack of BaB), release my spell, and teleport out. That's a good 1 round attack but not sustainable. I think I may then zip out and summon something or throw spells at the enemy.
I am liking where this is going, not much consistency but a lot of options. Hehe, I am a tiefling fighting my chaotic/demonic heritage by joining the ultimate force of order, the Hellknights but in combat my chaotic nature emerges.
|
|
Also remember at the epic levels, having the spell slots open to quicken true strike will help immensly, also spell perfection... quicken that true strike or magic missile for free
Spell Perfection
You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
is that legal for pfs? lmao i couldnt imagine it being so but fuigured it could be really cool
Yea it's PFS legal. Generally, anything that has an official FAQ ruling is fair game. Also there's nothing included on the PFS Additional Resources list banning it. Of course in a home campaign the GM is completely free to say "Hell No!" to that kind of cheese.
I am going to quicken truestrike, I thought about taking the feat for it but I think since it is only a level 2 spell I might just buy a lesser rod of quickening. Using the dimensional tree I think that my swift action for the turn will be used by that much more often than a quickened truestrike. Also going 3 feats deep into metamagic for a free quickening is not efficient in my eyes.
Anyone have any good feat ideas for this build? Currently as I have said I am going the full Dimensional tree (4 feats).
An idea I had that is UBER expensive is taking Endurance, die hard, and fast healer combined with a ring of regeneration and my characters stats will give me a permanent Regeneration 5.(3 feats and 90k gold though, ouch!) Anyone know a way to make this cheaper?
Thank you all for your help and insight.
|
|
just remember that unbreakable fighter gives you endurance and die hard right up front. Also the dimensional agility feat line lets you cast that spell as part of the attack/move etc.
Dimensional Assault
You have been trained to use magical movement as part of your combat tactics.
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door, Dimensional Agility.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you use abundant step or cast dimension door as a special charge. Doing so allows you to teleport up to double your current speed (up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell or ability) and to make the attack normally allowed on a charge.
Just remember the three feats you're talking about are all things you need anyhow just about. only one is really extraneous. In return you can give yourself a +20 to one hit a turn that also ignores concealment in all its forms. (also if you can take it again, do it with magic missile and now you've just thrown out free damage everyturn)
Of course in a home campaign the GM is completely free to say "Hell No!" to that kind of cheese.
Cheese is all relative. Some would call casting lvl 9 spells two levels sooner than this build cheesier than anything you get out of all this (ability to cast in full plate with 0% asf as a swift action)....
Thank you for the unbreakable fighter tip. That gives me 1 more feat to play withI didn't have before. I did the spell perfection route as well
Current Feats:
WIZ Scribe Scroll
1 Lightning Reflexes
3 Intensify Spell
5 Extend Spell
FTR Endurance, Diehard
7 Fast Healer
EK Arcane Armor Training
9 Quicken Spell
11 Dimensional Agility
13 Dimensional Assault
15 Dimensional Dervish
17 Dimensional Savant
19 Spell Perfection (True strike)
The lightning reflexes at 1st level replaced Spellcasting Prodigy when I realized that my REF save was terrible. Still not great.
Of course in a home campaign the GM is completely free to say "Hell No!" to that kind of cheese.Cheese is all relative. Some would call casting lvl 9 spells two levels sooner than this build cheesier than anything you get out of all this (ability to cast in full plate with 0% asf as a swift action)....
I'd consider just about anything that broke RAI as a of form cheese regardless of if the end result is weaker. When Eldritch Knight was first introduced, Aasimars and the Scryer Wizard school didn't exist in Pathfinder so they never had to consider SLAs being able to sneak into PrCs. The only reason the RAW hasn't been changed is because most PrCs, while flavorful, suck in terms of min/maxing.
Just because I think something is cheese doesn't mean I'd flat out prevent my players from using it in a game or even use it myself if a GM would let me slide on it. I'm simply saying that just because it's PFS legal and FAQ'd a GM can still say, "No, you can't use that in my game.".
|
|
I'd consider just about anything that broke RAI as a form cheese regardless of if the end result is weaker
That's an interesting stance.
Even when a FAQ acknowledges that "it's ok, we know this lets you access some prestige classes early and that's fine because it's generally a weaker option than the class?" by the ones writing the game, is somehow breaking intent?
Most people accept the term cheese or broken as a term to mean getting a benefit that exceeds what you should be able to achieve or that the rules normally restrict you from getting.
But you view cheese as merely anything that doesn't go with what you think rai is regardless of relative power to someone not using cheese...
I see this far too often on Paizo threads, a guy asks a question, this question at some point involves controversial rules, the entire thread becomes a pissing match from king of the nerds.
Thanks guys but as I said, GM said no. Your GM may say yes. End of the argument right there.
I'd consider just about anything that broke RAI as a form cheese regardless of if the end result is weakerThat's an interesting stance.
Even when a FAQ acknowledges that "it's ok, we know this lets you access some prestige classes early and that's fine because it's generally a weaker option than the class?" by the ones writing the game, is somehow breaking intent?
Most people accept the term cheese or broken as a term to mean getting a benefit that exceeds what you should be able to achieve or that the rules normally restrict you from getting.
But you view cheese as merely anything that doesn't go with what you think rai is regardless of relative power to someone not using cheese...
I said it was "a form of cheese", not the sole definition of chesse. As I said when PrCs like Eldritch Knight first came out in Pathfinder it was impossible for PCs to access them early. Just because they okay'd it later on doesn't mean it was intended, simply not worth bothering restricting the RAW since it wasn't a overbalanced option.
Sure an EK build maybe somewhat weaker than a Tier 1 full caster like Cleric or Wizard, it still packs more punch than many other classes. Getting early access to EK allows for a stronger low level build for someone with a more martial oriented build.
-^.^- Sorry for the off topic grognarding, g'luck with your game! -^.^-
|
Sorry guys but the above build is not RAW there for not legal in PFS.
Reynolds posted in a similar discussion on magic item creation feats, that spell like abilities do not count towards prerequisites for the feat because you are not actually casting the spell, dont get an actual caster level, etc.
So no that build is wayyyy off.
There simply isn't anyway to cheat the system when it comes to being able to increase your actual caster level for spell progression effects other than to level up.
Instead of wizard why don't you use arcanist it better because you will get:
dimensional slide that act like a dimensional door but not casted and it can be used as a 5 foot step.
School understanding to get a wizard specialization and to not incur in the opposite school.
Arcane weapon to gain +1 or more magic weapon and enchanting
Quick study in 1 turn you change 1 spell for other of the same lv from your spell book (this is very useful)
Spell resistance gain Sr for a number of round equal to your cha mod
Spell tinkerer increase or decrease spell duration by 50%
Potent magic: when using your arcane reservoirs special ability increase +2 to caster lv or DC to your next spell instead of +1
Sorry guys but the above build is not RAW there for not legal in PFS.
Reynolds posted in a similar discussion on magic item creation feats, that spell like abilities do not count towards prerequisites for the feat because you are not actually casting the spell, dont get an actual caster level, etc.
So no that build is wayyyy off.
There simply isn't anyway to cheat the system when it comes to being able to increase your actual caster level for spell progression effects other than to level up.
Note the date above - 2014. Then consider how the rules have changed (via FAQ) since then.
This is why thread necromancy is a bad idea.