Smite Makes Right
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I am starting up a Pathfinder Society Paladin. I want to cover a lot of bases, but still want to be effective at my core function and general explore some of the fun options available though PFS.
Currently, my books available are the Core plus:
- Pathfinder Society Field Guide
- Ultimate Equipment
- Advanced Race Guide
- Advanced Player's Guide
Race
I've decided on playing an Aasimar, but even if I had Blood of Angels, I think I would play a normal Aasimar. The one variation I was considering was Scion of Humanity, but I am not entirely sure what I am giving up or gaining with this option. Is an Aasimar normally immune to Charm Person, for example, and this removes that immunity? Does this option allow me to take human favored class options like energy resistance and will this energy resistance overlap the Aasimar resistances or can it be used to increase it?
Stats (20 point buy with racial modifiers)
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 17
Diety
Sarenrae, the Dawnflower
Traits
I currently have Dangerously Curious (Magic) and Beneficent Touch (Faith), but I just noticed that the reroll is only once per day and I am thinking about switching them out. Magical Knack (Magic) might be interesting, but I am not sure. I would only drop Dangerously Curious if I took the Cosmopolitan Feat.
Feats
Cosmopolitan (UMD and another skill as a class skill) if I drop Dangerously Curious.
Angelic Blood (partially to qualify for Angel Wings)
Power Attack, Cleave and/or Improved Sunder / Greater Sunder or Sundering Strike
Critical Focus if I also take Sickening Critical
I think I can take Fight On due to a 14 Con.
Step Up, possibly Following Step and/or Step Up and Strike
Skipping Improved Critical and buying a Scabbard of Keen Edges when I can.
Reward of Grace (+1 sacred bonus, but only for 1 round)
Saving Shield seems good if I am will be adjacent to another frontliner, but I think flanking is better than stacking up on the same side.
Shield Focus
Combat Reflexes would only be worth it if I bump up my Dex.
Later levels:
I was considering Channeled Revival since it costs less than Ultimate Mercy, but I think Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy are the way to go. With Bracers of the Merciful Knight (+4 levels for LoH) and a +2 Cha item, I can pay the cost at 8th level.
Angel Wings
Archetypes
I didn't see any archetypes that really appealed to me, I want to preserve Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, and Divine Grace. Is there something I overlooked?
Early Equipment
Silver Wayfinder - The Detect Evil overlaps with the class ability, but the other functions are cool. If I find a class feature that substitutes Detect Evil for another class feature, I will still have it though the item.
Living Steel Heavy Shield, throwing shield - I am not going to throw it, but it regenerates damage, can't be disarmed (property of throwing), and natural 1's against me break weapons. Woot.
Kikko - cheaper than scale mail for the same protection, why wouldn't I take it until I can afford better armor.
Scimitar (Weapon Bond)
Composite Longbow
Cold Iron Kukri (because it's kind of like a miniature Scimitar)
Gauntlet of Rust paired with a Spiked Gauntlet. The first to make my equipment immune to rust, the second as a piercing weapon that can't be disarmed.
Handy Haversack (Heward told me these are awesome).
Cauldron of Resurrection as a potential alternative to Ultimate Mercy.
| TGMaxMaxer |
Yes, you would normally be immune to the "person" spells, scion of humanity removes the immunity, but lets you benefit from Enlarge, so it's a trade off. It also lets you use Human Feats, archetypes, and Favored Class Bonuses.
If you happen to get Blood of Angels, the Str/Cha Aasimar is good for the Alter Self (+2 size bonus to str, still medium, and scent/water breathing/ claw/claw/bite natural weapons when you go into smite mode since it applies to all of them at once). The skills are good too for that heritage.
Honestly, PFS rewards crunch on paper, and roleplay the flavor.
Try these Stats: Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 9 Cha 17 (PFS play lets you bump 2 stats during the character's life, should do Str and Cha in whatever order you like, I would do Str first.)
I doubt you intended to up Dex with levels, so unless you were planning on taking the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat (which is great BTW, use the bard list for sure) you can afford to dump Wis a little (Cha save makes up for it), and Int while using favored Class bonus for skills at low levels when it counts more.
Pick a combat style. As a Paladin, you get 4 feats total (if you are trying to get wings). So, if you want step up chain, that's 3. If you want a Combat Maneuver, that's 2 feats. You want Power Attack regardless, so I don't count that one. If you use a reach weapon, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes are worth it. It's your call, but you can only have one focus with 4 feats in 8 levels.
You can't get to the Angelic Wings until 10, but Angelic Blood is a feat tax. Wings will come at level 11, so your last playable level. Don't build around them, at that point you'll have the prestige to retrain a feat for 5 Prestige into Angelic Blood, to qualify for Angelic Wings. (They're great flavor feats, but PFS doesn't last long enough to make them worth it)
Most paladin archetypes aren't worth it, but if you pick up Ultimate Magic some of the Oathbound Archetypes Oaths are pretty nice.
If you happen to be a member of the Silver Crusade Faction, you can get a Shining Wayfinder for 2Prestige Points, and you can pick up a Darkwood Composite Longbow (Str +3) for another 2 Prestige Points. I would do that for a backup weapon, and later make it +1 Adaptive for 3k when you start getting major Str buffs from things.
Start with 4-Mirror armor, +6AC +2 Dex, 45 gold. Still completely reasonable, and after your 3rd game you'll rebuy gear with ~1650g anyways.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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You can't get to the Angelic Wings until 10, but Angelic Blood is a feat tax. Wings will come at level 11, so your last playable level
Plan for 11 Levels and Defiantly don't build around a Cap stone Feat at 11 because you will have 3 sessions with that capstone and many Sessions waiting for it to come. It will be very disappointing. I get the flavor but you can easily say your from angelic blood or what ever you feel like without taxing yourself on feats such as Angelic Blood. You would be better rewarded For focusing on combat feats to better your Combat strength.
Honestly, PFS rewards crunch on paper, and role play the flavor.
Try these Stats: Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 9 Cha 17 (PFS play lets you bump 2 stats during the character's life, should do Str and Cha in whatever order you like, I would do Str first.)
I agree with this stat Lay out. Your going to be a Melee Style Character no need to worry about lots of Skills. Your job will be to see everyone through the scuffles and make it out alive.
I doubt you intended to up Dex with levels, so unless you were planning on taking the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat (which is great BTW, use the bard list for sure) you can afford to dump Wis a little (Cha save makes up for it), and Int while using favored Class bonus for skills at low levels when it counts more.
Building towards Unsanctioned Knowledge is required in character creation. It is an amazing feat and I agree the Bard list offers some good Gems. But the feat is a Int Tax. It is up to you as the player we can figure out a Build around it if you decide to go that route.
Feats
Cosmopolitan (UMD and another skill as a class skill) if I drop Dangerously Curious.
Angelic Blood (partially to qualify for Angel Wings)
Power Attack, Cleave and/or Improved Sunder / Greater Sunder or Sundering Strike
Critical Focus if I also take Sickening Critical
I think I can take Fight On due to a 14 Con.
Step Up, possibly Following Step and/or Step Up and Strike
Skipping Improved Critical and buying a Scabbard of Keen Edges when I can.
Reward of Grace (+1 sacred bonus, but only for 1 round)
Saving Shield seems good if I am will be adjacent to another frontliner, but I think flanking is better than stacking up on the same side.
Shield Focus
Combat Reflexes would only be worth it if I bump up my Dex.
Time to gut this list.
Keep dangerously Curious and Gut Cosmopolitan
Axe Angelic Blood as wings you will hardly see or use.
Shield Focus is trash compared to Dodge. Take Dodge over Shield focus on EVERY character first if you qualify for 13 dex.
Reward of Grace....Blah...For 1 round....You don't have a problem hitting...or shouldn't.
Improved Critical...Buy a +1 Keen Scimitar and Bond Holy to it. Scabbard of Keen edges is too much $$$
Saving Shield- You don't know what your party is and not all the time will you have front liners to save with it.
Step up- This is up to you...I hate it...every caster Casts defensively after level 5 so you won't proc this very much against a casters. I just don't get much use out of the feats myself until I get all 3.
Power Attack- Your Keeper Feat
Combat Reflexes- Many people recommend a Reach weapon to begin with.
I remember you saying something about bracers of the merciful Knight....If you are wearing any other bracers besides Silver smiting Bracelets your going to make me cry as a player. Stop worrying about fixing Problems....instead kill the damn thing fast enough and not have to worry about more then a little HP damage. Your going to want to bring every hostile to pound town as quickly as possible.
| TGMaxMaxer |
Again, Most of the comments from me at least were because you are playing in PFS. Anything from season 4 on (currently half way through season 5), is APL+2-4 encounters, since they dropped from 4-5 encounters to 3-4 encounters per scenario, and wanted to keep the 3 games/level and justify the XP chart.
If this character was for a home game, I would totally support the flavorful choices.
But this is a "lead-by-the-nose-heavy-combat-must-have +x bonus-by-level y" game made to gain a full level in 12 hours of play. We have a couple of older gamers locally, who make fantastic, flavorful, fun characters. They either go negative multiple times per scenario, or have almost nothing they can do to keep up with the encounters.
For added fun on the idea, consider Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 4-6.
Be the offspring of an angel and a gold/silver "good" aligned dragon, and worship Apsu. There's a couple neat things in Inner Sea Gods for that.
Argus The Slayer
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My suggestion for stats with an Angel-Blooded Aasimar:
Str 18
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 16
This gives you very big payback with a two handed weapon right from the beginning, and allows you to bump your CHA at 4th and 8th, if you wish. I would highly suggest continuing to bump STR, so that you can have a 22STR with a +2 Belt at level 8, so that you can be very effective against non-evil opponents -- which is critical IMO for a paladin.
Fey Foundling is a feat from the Inner Sea Word Guide that makes paladins shine Check it out. I would say Fey Foundling is the closest thing to a must-have Paladin feat in PFS, other than Power Attack, which is pretty much a no brainer.
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine
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Not mandatory by any means, but some thoughts to consider.
Recently I've seen a couple of paladins doing pretty well with low (for a melee guy) constitution. One has a 12 the other only 10. They put the constitution lower so they could raise the cha and str even higher. They are banking on the swift action self heals to survive with what are low hit points for a font line melee character.
It is kinda risky, but it has been working well for them up through level 7 and 9. You have to plan on killing things quickly, don't try to save your lay on hands to the last moment, and have an escape plan for when you need to pull back.
Consider a two-handed weapon instead of the sword and board. (Well, at level 1 and maybe 2 you are squishy enough and poor enough that it is still a good choice.) Especially since you are going with power attack. Sword and board only seems to work well if you are going to really concentrate on being a high AC tank.
I disagree with the attitude that you can't take flavorful things and survive in PFS. I'm doing that with 6 characters, while surviving and contributing with all of them. (I will admit, my first character, built before I really understood things is probably the least effective. But that is because of my ignorance not the flavor.)
Plus if you really work at it, you can often manage to handle several of the 'encounters' without combat. We can almost always manage to not get in a fight for one of them. I've seen some others that manage to not fight usually 2 and sometimes 3 of the 4 encounters.
On the other hand, you can't completely ignore capability in combat. I have seen that mistake a couple of times. It is probably very difficult to ever avoid fighting the last BBEG encounter. Plus it is usually the toughest fight anyway. But if you've saved most of your resources by not fighting before this, you have a leg up.
Deadmanwalking
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My stat suggestions are a bit different from those mentioned by other people, based on what you seem to want. I'd go as follows:
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 9 Cha 17
Str is way more important than Con for a Paladin, Lay on Hands on yourself plus Paladin saves means that high Con is just kinda superfluous. As is Dex 13+ (since you'll be wearing Full Plate anyway), in many ways. Int 13, on the other hand, opens up Unsanctioned Knowledge, which is pretty great, all things considered. That does require Ultimate Magic...but Ultimate Magic is an awesome book for Paladins, and lost of other people too.
In terms of Archetypes, Oath of Vengeance is really great (though, again, requiring Ultimate Magic), trading LoH for Smite Evil when you like (and only when you like) is pretty awesome.
If you can't get Ultimate Magic, just swap Int and Con in the above stat-line.
Scion of Humanity doesn't change your creature type, so Charm Person still wouldn't work, and does allow you to grab Energy Resistance if you wanted (though it wouldn't stack, and I wouldn't bother doing that).
For Feats, I'd go something like this (assuming Fey Foundling isn't available...if it is, take it at 1st):
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Cosmopolitan
5th: Step Up
7th: Unsanctioned Knowledge
9th: Extra Lay On Hands
| David Neilson |
Actually there is a good reason to take improved critical for a Paladin. Look at the text of Bless Weapon, it states that it will not work with magical ways of augmenting your crit range, but improved critical is not magical. Autocriting from 15-20 is useful. I would also suggest furious focus. Also while PFS does tend to be combat heavy you can definitely get away with something less than optimal. I am not sure how useful cleave is in pathfinder and more importantly in PFS generally simply since I have rarely experienced being heavily outnumbered, so it is better to strike one enemy down and continue on than needing to hit as many opponents as possible every round.
| TGMaxMaxer |
Yeah... Scion of Humanity does mean charm person and such work. Bolded the relevant bit for you.
Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
It's just like being a half-blood orc or elf. Ranger Favored enemy(human) or (native outsider) would both hit for more damage too.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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I am not sure how useful cleave is in pathfinder and more importantly in PFS generally simply since I have rarely experienced being heavily outnumbered, so it is better to strike one enemy down and continue on than needing to hit as many opponents as possible every round
Cleave in PFS is like Cleave in home games...Completely useless past level 6. Worth skipping if you can. Most smarter enemies will not line up to be hit in a cleaving manner just like casters no longer do the 5 foot step but rely on Defensive casting.
I disagree with the attitude that you can't take flavorful things and survive in PFS. I'm doing that with 6 characters, while surviving and contributing with all of them. (I will admit, my first character, built before I really understood things is probably the least effective. But that is because of my ignorance not the flavor.)
Wasting feat for flavor that can be role-played without a feat is bad.
For instance: You can Claim to be angel born without taking angelic Blood feat. Role-play doesn't always translate into your feat choices. Sometimes they must, but if you can avoid wasting such a precious resource like a feat I advise to do so.When I sit at a table and see characters do nothing noteworthy the entire scenario I sometimes have to ask myself if their flavorful concept was worth sacrificing functionality. Like a few sessions back A magus was in my party...but they where a Archer magus....He hit 1 time the entire scenario for 5 damage at level 4 but attacked every chance he got. Compare that to a real magus who would be doing triple that per attack. I don't think the flavor was really worth it...Being useless might suit that player...but I hate feeling useless at the gaming Table.
| Undone |
Spoiler:I am starting up a Pathfinder Society Paladin. I want to cover a lot of bases, but still want to be effective at my core function and general explore some of the fun options available though PFS.Currently, my books available are the Core plus:
- Pathfinder Society Field Guide
- Ultimate Equipment
- Advanced Race Guide
- Advanced Player's Guide
Race
I've decided on playing an Aasimar, but even if I had Blood of Angels, I think I would play a normal Aasimar. The one variation I was considering was Scion of Humanity, but I am not entirely sure what I am giving up or gaining with this option. Is an Aasimar normally immune to Charm Person, for example, and this removes that immunity? Does this option allow me to take human favored class options like energy resistance and will this energy resistance overlap the Aasimar resistances or can it be used to increase it?
I believe angelkin is +2 str + 2 dex the spell like ability is also change shape which gives you +2 str. It's significantly better. Yes Aasimar are normally immune to Person effects. The resists overlap.Spoiler:
Stats (20 point buy with racial modifiers)
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 17
I strongly recommend against this stat array.
Not having a 16 str will severely hamper your damage output. Consider Angelkin with this array
STR: 18 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 7 WIS: 12 CHA: 16
Or normal aasamar with
STR: 16 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 7 WIS: 14 CHA: 16
If you really refuse to dump a stat
STR: 16 DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 10 CHA: 16
Is also decent. Having a 14 str on a character whos primary mode of damage is attacking will result in you just being unable to meaningfully contribute at higher levels in more serious adventures or specials.Spoiler:
Diety
Sarenrae, the DawnflowerTraits
I currently have Dangerously Curious (Magic) and Beneficent Touch (Faith), but I just noticed that the reroll is only once per day and I am thinking about switching them out. Magical Knack (Magic) might be interesting, but I am not sure. I would only drop Dangerously Curious if I took the Cosmopolitan Feat.Feats
Cosmopolitan (UMD and another skill as a class skill) if I drop Dangerously Curious.
Angelic Blood (partially to qualify for Angel Wings)
Power Attack, Cleave and/or Improved Sunder / Greater Sunder or Sundering Strike
Critical Focus if I also take Sickening Critical
I think I can take Fight On due to a 14 Con.
Step Up, possibly Following Step and/or Step Up and Strike
Skipping Improved Critical and buying a Scabbard of Keen Edges when I can.
Reward of Grace (+1 sacred bonus, but only for 1 round)
Saving Shield seems good if I am will be adjacent to another frontliner, but I think flanking is better than stacking up on the same side
Shield Focus
Combat Reflexes would only be worth it if I bump up my Dex.Later levels:
I was considering Channeled Revival since it costs less than Ultimate Mercy, but I think Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy are the way to go. With Bracers of the Merciful Knight (+4 levels for LoH) and a +2 Cha item, I can pay the cost at 8th level.
Angel WingsArchetypes
I didn't see any archetypes that really appealed to me, I want to preserve Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, and Divine Grace. Is there something I overlooked?
Oath of vengeance gives up channeling for additional smites. It's fairly strong and gives you the ability to take the feat "Extra smite" by taking extra lay on hands.
Spoiler:
Early Equipment
Silver Wayfinder - The Detect Evil overlaps with the class ability, but the other functions are cool. If I find a class feature that substitutes Detect Evil for another class feature, I will still have it though the item.
Living Steel Heavy Shield, throwing shield - I am not going to throw it, but it regenerates damage, can't be disarmed (property of throwing), and natural 1's against me break weapons. Woot.
Kikko - cheaper than scale mail for the same protection, why wouldn't I take it until I can afford better armor.
Scimitar (Weapon Bond)
Composite Longbow
Cold Iron Kukri (because it's kind of like a miniature Scimitar)
Gauntlet of Rust paired with a Spiked Gauntlet. The first to make my equipment immune to rust, the second as a piercing weapon that can't be disarmed.
Handy Haversack (Heward told me these are awesome).
Cauldron of Resurrection as a potential alternative to Ultimate Mercy.
My thoughts outside of spoilers.
Argus The Slayer
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I missed the OP's focus on shields.
Shields are a bad option for most paladins. Per the rules, you need to have a free hand to use Lay on Hands. A sword and Board paladin can't be effective at the swift LOH unless they use a light shield (since you can hold your weapon in the hand that you have the light shield equipped in whilst you LOH). Some DMs may be OK with you using a heavy shield, but where I play (Colorado), most of the DMs won't let you swift LOH with a heavy shield.
The defensive benefit of using a light shield does not justify the damage lost when compared to wielding a two-handed weapon.
The other benefit of using a two-handed weapon is that you will generally be more of an offensive threat, which means you are a better target for monsters, allowing you to fill the "tank" tole much more effectively.
Unsanctioned knowledge is a great feat at higher levels, but I don't think it really shines until you have 3rd and 4th level spells (Haste and Blessing of Fervor. I don't think it is worth the cost of a feat and 123 INT for PFS. With my PFS paladin I got a lot of mileage out of Hero's Defiance at first level and Paladin's Sacrifice at 2nd - enough mileage that I eventually prepared only those two spells for all of my spell slots.
I think there is a lot of room for characterization and flavor in a paladin PFS build. I would highly suggest these feats to make you very functional:
1st Level: Fey Foundling
3rd Level: Power Attack
9th Level: Improved Critical
This approach leaves you three feats (5th, 7th and 11th levels) for flavor or for broadening your function, without compromising your contribution to the table when the crap hits the fan. Note that if you start with a STR lower than 18, I'd highly suggest Weapon Focus to help your attack bonus. With an 18 starting STR (and especially if you continue to bump STR as you level), you can afford to not take Weapon Focus. Would it help you offense? Definitely. Is it Necessary? No.
One more thing: I disagree with dropping CON to anything below 14 for any melee build, unless your race choice gives a penalty to CON, and this is especially true if you are playing a character that is intending to tank. Your swift LOH ability can make up for a lack of focus on defensive stats like AC, but it can't make up for a lack of defensive stats AND a lack of hit points - if you are planning on "tanking".
| Undone |
Undone wrote:Angelkin (AKA Angel-Blooded) Aasimar's gain a +2 Bonus to STR and CHA.I believe angelkin is +2 str + 2 dex the spell like ability is also change shape which gives you +2 str. It's significantly better. Yes Aasimar are normally immune to Person effects. The resists overlap.
My error. That's a typo on my part. It's +2 Str and Cha which are most important to a paladin.
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine
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...
Quote:I disagree with the attitude that you can't take flavorful things and survive in PFS. I'm doing that with 6 characters, while surviving and contributing with all of them. (I will admit, my first character, built before I really understood things is probably the least effective. But that is because of my ignorance not the flavor.)Wasting feat for flavor that can be role-played without a feat is bad.
For instance: You can Claim to be angel born without taking angelic Blood feat. Role-play doesn't always translate into your feat choices. Sometimes they must, but if you can avoid wasting such a precious resource like a feat I advise to do so.When I sit at a table and see characters do nothing noteworthy the entire scenario I sometimes have to ask myself if their flavorful concept was worth sacrificing functionality. Like a few sessions back A magus was in my party...but they where a Archer magus....He hit 1 time the entire scenario for 5 damage at level 4 but attacked every chance he got. Compare that to a real magus who would be doing triple that per attack. I don't think the flavor was really worth it...Being useless might suit that player...but I hate feeling useless at the gaming Table.
I agree that a character has to be useful to the party. Hopefully both in and out of combat. (Though I've seen quite a few that think it should only be one or the other.)
But taking 1 or 2 feats that are not perfectly combat optimal does not make a character useless. Besides, the 2 feats he is talking about (Angelic Blood and Angel Wings) are at least situationally useful.
Personally I would take Angelic Flesh rather than Angel Wings. Either one gives you something that visibly shows you are angelic and a sometimes useful property.
Some character will have played through to level 10 without having a reliable method of flight (or have just been using the occasional potion). Flight pretty clearly is an often useful ability.
As separate but related item, I will also mention that I have talked to several people that when they get to around level 8-11, switch to the slow progression so they can spend longer playing their character at the highest PFS levels. I can understand why they do that, but I probably won't. I always have umpteen other concepts that I can't wait to try out.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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I missed the OP's focus on shields.
Shields are a bad option for most paladins. Per the rules, you need to have a free hand to use Lay on Hands. A sword and Board paladin can't be effective at the swift LOH unless they use a light shield (since you can hold your weapon in the hand that you have the light shield equipped in whilst you LOH). Some DMs may be OK with you using a heavy shield, but where I play (Colorado), most of the DMs won't let you swift LOH with a heavy shield.
The defensive benefit of using a light shield does not justify the damage lost when compared to wielding a two-handed weapon.
Mithral Heavy Shield- 1020g
That is if He still wants the Sword and Shield. Some people like the Flavor of it.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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I'm Pitching my Sword and Shield Build Based off a good portion of what the OP wanted.
Scion of Humanity Aasimar
Stats: Str 15 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 17
(my recommendation without Dumping a stat lower then 10 Not Optimal but will work.) The OP did not dump a stat so I am keeping with his thinking. Also increase Strength @ 4 and Cha @ 8.
Diety
Sarenrae, the Dawn-flower (OP wants this)
Traits:
Dangerously Curious- UMD is what the OP wants.
OP Choice:Blessed Touch,Flames of the Dawnflower,Reactionary, or Beneficent Touch
Feats:
1:Power Attack
3:Step up (I'm against this chain but the OP likes it)
5:Following step
7:Step up and strike
9:Improved Critical- Scimitar (Due to David Neilson being Right about Bless weapon)
11:Extra Lay on Hands
Skills:
UMD- I assume you will max this and add Layered Defenses with it.
Diplomacy
Early Equipment
Wayfinder
Quick Draw Mithral Heavy Shield, (if the OP still wants throwing shield add it)
Kikko - cheaper than scale mail for the same protection, why wouldn't I take it until I can afford better armor. But find better Armor.
Composite Longbow
M.W. Cold Iron Scimitar
Morning Star (Bludgeoning and Piecing Damage)
Handy Haversack
Smite Makes Right
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First, let me clarify that this will be a PFS character that I play mostly in home PFS games with a group of unknown consistency in its composition. Other PFS games, like at local cons would only be occasional. If PFS games stop at 11, which it doesn't sound like they actually do, we would probably convert the characters to standard Pathfinder and play on.
Quote:Honestly, PFS rewards crunch on paper, and role play the flavor.
Try these Stats: Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 9 Cha 17 (PFS play lets you bump 2 stats during the character's life, should do Str and Cha in whatever order you like, I would do Str first.)I agree with this stat Lay out. Your going to be a Melee Style Character no need to worry about lots of Skills. Your job will be to see everyone through the scuffles and make it out alive.
I had a 13 Dex to qualify for a feat, but I can't remember which. Step Up? 14 Dex would be good for AC, but I'm concerned about taking a penalty to Will Saves and Wis-based skills. I know Paladins get some immunities as we level, but I may switch to Str 15 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 17.
I remember you saying something about bracers of the merciful Knight....If you are wearing any other bracers besides Silver smiting Bracelets your going to make me cry as a player. Stop worrying about fixing Problems....instead kill the damn thing fast enough and not have to worry about more then a little HP damage. Your going to want to bring every hostile to pound town as quickly as possible.
The bracers of merciful healing would be put on at the end of the session to resurrect someone with Ultimate Mercy. I would use something else during the fighting. Though, your comment made me realize that gauntlets of rust shared a slot with the silver smiting bracelet. So much for rust immunity.
Again, Most of the comments from me at least were because you are playing in PFS. Anything from season 4 on (currently half way through season 5), is APL+2-4 encounters, since they dropped from 4-5 encounters to 3-4 encounters per scenario, and wanted to keep the 3 games/level and justify the XP chart.
Thank for this. The APL benchmark is very useful information. Considering that I will likely be the singular most regular player, that will lead to my character being slightly above the APL.
I'm Pitching my Sword and Shield Build Based off a good portion of what the OP wanted.
Traits:
Dangerously Curious- UMD is what the OP wants.OP Choice:Blessed Touch,Flames of the Dawnflower,Reactionary, or Beneficent Touch
Feats:
1:Power Attack
3:Step up (I'm against this chain but the OP likes it)
I'm curious about the effectiveness of the chain. I think I like the critical focus or free sunder on a critical feats better (can I combine the two to free sunder and sicken a creature?).
Skills:
UMD- I assume you will max this and add Layered Defenses with it.
I find UMD to be a very useful skill, but I don't have specific plans for what to use it for. Do you have suggestions? I think I can get a level 4 stoneskin wand, but I am not sure if that's a great option.
Quick Draw Mithral Heavy Shield, (if the OP still wants throwing shield add it)
The throwing just makes the shield immune to disarm. I'm not going to throw it. Why Mithral?
Regarding Lay on Hands, why not just put a weapon cord on the main weapon? Drop it, lay on hands, recover as a swift action. Can I choose to use a Standard Action to lay on hands or do I have to wait until next round to recover the scimitar?
Kikko - cheaper than scale mail for the same protection, why wouldn't I take it until I can afford better armor. But find better Armor.
I will swap it for the four-mirror armor per TGMaxMaxer. Still cheaper than scale mail and better protection.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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The throwing just makes the shield immune to disarm. I'm not going to throw it. Why Mithral?
Regarding Lay on Hands, why not just put a weapon cord on the main weapon? Drop it, lay on hands, recover as a swift action. Can I choose to use a Standard Action to lay on hands or do I have to wait until next round to recover the scimitar?
Because with Mithral you wouldn't have to drop anything but can use lay on hands like it was a light steel shield. But your still getting the AC of a Heavy Shield. It keeps your LoH on you as a swift action and you would still have a move and a standard without worrying about juggling a weapon.
I find UMD to be a very useful skill, but I don't have specific plans for what to use it for. Do you have suggestions? I think I can get a level 4 stoneskin wand, but I am not sure if that's a great option.
Not just wands but scrolls as well.
I will give you a Small list of useful wands to you:
Longstrider, Lead Blades, Cure Light Wounds, Bear's endurance/Cat's Grace, Mirror Image, Fly, Good Hope, Defending Bone/Resinous Skin (DR/5)
You should layer your defenses. Good AC with a Mirror Image spell means you will likely be hit less then just focusing on straight AC. Another good spell is Blur and Displacement. Adds a miss chance after a hit has been declared.
Stoneskin will be WAY expensive on a wand. You would do well buying a Scroll of it from time to time but it is not necessary. If you want a wand of Defending bone or resinous skin as both have a very good Lasting time and don't cost 250g per casting.
I'm curious about the effectiveness of the chain. I think I like the critical focus or free sunder on a critical feats better (can I combine the two to free sunder and sicken a creature?).
Find out about how high the group goes because getting Critical feat chain come LATE level past level 13. Sadly Critical Feats are limited in PFS. Only one you can reach in PFS play is Bleeding Critical.
I dislike the Step up chain for reasons in other posts. Sundering can be good but not everything wears sunder-able stuff and when sundering your not Damaging the enemy which gives him more time to hurt your group. I only recommended it because you the OPer mentioned it in your Original Post.
| Kydeem de'Morcaine |
First, let me clarify that this will be a PFS character that I play mostly in home PFS games with a group of unknown consistency in its composition. Other PFS games, like at local cons would only be occasional. If PFS games stop at 11, which it doesn't sound like they actually do, we would probably convert the characters to standard Pathfinder and play on. ..
PFS does not technically stop at level 11. However, there are very few scenarios for characters level 12 and over. I do not have one in that range yet. (I'm getting closer.) But from what I understand the people that do retire most of their characters at level 12 and only play their favorite at level 12 and above. That is because you normally can't replay a scenario with a different character.
It is also usually fairly difficult to get a group of people with level 12 characters all together at the same time. (If you are playing them as a home game, that may not be an issue.)... but I'm concerned about taking a penalty to Will Saves and Wis-based skills. I know Paladins get some immunities as we level, but I may switch to Str 15 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 17. ...
Due to Divine Grace, a high charisma paladin usually has the highest saves at the table (sometimes a monk beats them, but not by much). So it is often considered an acceptable risk to drop wisdom a bit the +3 to +5 easily offsets the -1 to -2 from dumping wisdom.
Plus paladins are also immune to quite a few things.The 2 main wisdom skills are perception and sense motive. That can be painful. However, paladins have so few skill points that many people feel their skills are irrelevant except for what ever 1 or 2 charisma skills they are keeping max'd.
Though, if you dump wisdom, you do need to be even more careful about the small number of creatures and spells that attack you wisdom.
... Though, your comment made me realize that gauntlets of rust shared a slot with the silver smiting bracelet. So much for rust immunity. ...
I've been trying to remember, but I don't think I have ever been attacked with a rust effect in PFS. So I wouldn't build that as a major part of my plans anyway.
... Sundering can be good but not everything wears sunder-able stuff and when sundering your not Damaging the enemy which gives him more time to hurt your group. I only recommended it because you the OPer mentioned it in your Original Post. ...
Sundering is most useful when there is something special about the item to be sundered or the creature using it.
Anti-paladin has a sword that bestows plagues and curses on every hit (and you aren't sure you take him down in one round)? Smash that sucker.
Battle master has 14 feats to maximize his combat with the elven curved blade (and you aren't sure you take him down in one round)? Destroy it and many of those feats will not apply to his backup dagger.
Smite Makes Right
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Quote:The throwing just makes the shield immune to disarm. I'm not going to throw it. Why Mithral?
Regarding Lay on Hands, why not just put a weapon cord on the main weapon? Drop it, lay on hands, recover as a swift action. Can I choose to use a Standard Action to lay on hands or do I have to wait until next round to recover the scimitar?
Because with Mithral you wouldn't have to drop anything but can use lay on hands like it was a light steel shield. But your still getting the AC of a Heavy Shield. It keeps your LoH on you as a swift action and you would still have a move and a standard without worrying about juggling a weapon.
I don't see anything to support that mithral changes heavy shields in that way. Are you sure that is not a house rule?
| TGMaxMaxer |
The Mithral shield thing isn't actually in the rules. (although if not for PFS I would allow it).
The only listing for light or 1 handed categories with regards to shields is when they are treated as weapons. So, the clause in Mithral stating that even though they are 50% lighter they don't change handedness means it doesn't work.
Smite Makes Right
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Okay, I've played around with a few options and here are my current thoughts:
Paladin of Sarenrae
"Normal" Aasimar with scion of humanity.
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 9 (I'm not a fan of "dump stats," but let's give this a try)
Cha 17
Traits
Dangerously Curious
Secondary trait options
- Strength of the Sun (+1 cha checks during the day) - Legacy of Fire
- Force for Good (+1 CL for [Good] Spells.) - Free Guide. Only 6 spells at level 1 have the good descriptor and Cure spells aren't included. Only 1st level that it seems good for is Protection from Evil. 2nd level has 10, 5 at level 3, and 7 at level 4.
- Faith Healer (+1 Heal, use Heal for a profession check) - Blood of Angels. Meh, but it seems like getting a high heal bonus is easier than Craft/Profession/Perform and Heal is more useful outside of the Day Job Roll; still, meh.
- Stalwart of the Society (Increase bonus of aura of courage by +1) - Faction Guide/Shattered Star's Player Guide
- Inspired (1/day roll twice for a skill/ability check and take higher result) - Ultimate Campaign
- Fate's Favored (increase luck bonus, like from Jingasa, by +1) - Ultimate Campaign
Feats
Current plan is something like:
- Fey Foundling --Inner Sea Guide
- Power Attack
- Greater Mercy
- Ultimate Mercy
- Improved Critical
- 11+...?
Gear
- Scimitar - Not sure if I will replace it with one that has special materials later.
- Living Steel Throwing Shield. Am I reading things correctly that I could sacrifice one AC for a buckler and have the option to switch between shield and two-handed scimitar (with a -1 attack)?
- Four Mirror Armor initially, not sure about later. Mithral BP? Full Plate?
Eventually:
- Gloves of Healing?
- Bracelet of Silver Smiting
- Headband of Charisma +2 - upgrade to flying version or bonus to Wis & Cha?
- Belt of +x to Str - upgrade to Con & Str and then, maybe Str, Dex, and Con
- Cloak of Displacement?
- Circlet of Persuasion when out of combat?
- Hand of Glory for 3 rings (ring of protection, ring of evasion, ring of regeneration?) or Amulet of Natural Armor?
- Stone of Good Luck (especially with that fate trait)
- Merciful Baldric?
Skills
- Use Magic Device
- Diplomacy
- Favored Class: Heal?
Deadmanwalking
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I'd drop either Con or Dex (your choice) to 12 for a 16 Str. Having a 16 in your primary attack stat is almost always worth it, and certainly is in this case (especially by dropping Dex if going Full Plate...-1 AC for the first level or so is eminently worth it for the extra Str).
And Heal's not worth much. Personally, I'd go either Knowledge (Religion) for theme (and because it's handy) or Sense Motive (to round out your social skills and be a solid face on your own).
You're right about the buckler thing.
Sir Thugsalot
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Strongly agreed -- and the GM will always throw the nastiest thing against the paladin because he was totally asking for it just by being one. The angel-blood is the noticeably superior subrace for melee paladins.If you happen to get Blood of Angels, the Str/Cha Aasimar is good for the Alter Self (+2 size bonus to str, still medium, and scent/water breathing/ claw/claw/bite natural weapons when you go into smite mode since it applies to all of them at once). The skills are good too for that heritage.
Honestly, PFS rewards crunch on paper, and roleplay the flavor.
My suggestion for stats with an Angel-Blooded Aasimar:
Str 18
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 16
Or, if you're willing to accept a small bit of risk in the lower game...
STR+18 (10)
DEX:12 (2)
CON:13 (3)
INT:11 (1)
WIS:07 (-4)
CHA+17 (8)
Raise CHA at 4th, CON at 8th, and either INT or WIS at 12th (or anything plus a Tome or boon). -- At 8th, your hitpoints and will save are the same as the first build, but your CHA is two higher from 4th.
(This is an extremely rare case of me breaking all my normal rules about not having more than one odd stat above 10 or not consistently raising the prime attribute.)
Traits: Dangerously Curious, Bralani's Step
00 saves
01 03 01 -0 p1 [core] Fey Foundling
02 07 04 04 p2 LOH:4x([1d6+2] [Divine Grace]
03 07 05 04 p3 LOH:4x[2d6+4] Greater Mercy
04 10 07 07 p4 LOH:7x[3d6+6] CHA>18 (buy CHA headband)
...at 4th, you can heal an average of 115hp per day and 16 per round. You have a +7 will save (w/headband) despite dumped wisdom.
05 10 07 07 p5 LOH:7x[3d6+6] Power Attack
06 11 08 08 p6 LOH:8x[4d6+8]
07 11 08 08 p7 LOH:10x[4d6+8] Extra Lay on Hands
08 13 09 10 p8 LOH:12x[5d6+10] (+4 headband by now)
09 13 10 10 p9 LOH:12x[5d6+10] Ultimate Mercy
...at 9th, you can heal an average of 330hp per day with LoH,
Option: take ELoH at 5th and qualify for Ultimate Mercy by 7th in this build; does delay damage-booster feats...then again you're +2 stronger than the average well-built PFS human paladin, so you hardly need the minor overkill compared to the ability to Raise Dead at no cost.
Read this thread for how to deploy Ultimate Mercy effectively in PFS -- once word gets out, you will be the most desired-to-adventure-with character in the Pathfinder Society (you the player sadly will retain your negative charisma modifier and odious personal habits ;-).
Smite Makes Right
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Okay, PFS doesn't allow Living Steel. Bummer.
One of the favored class options is to increase the bonuses from auras by 1/6. Is this worth it? I think I have the option to take the human Racial Heritage feat to use the halfling favored class option (+1/2 lay on hands healing).
I am not going to go Angelkin.
So, I think I will go with the following:
Scion of Humanity Aasimar.
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 9
Cha 17
Do I get to pick bonus languages from the human list (any except secret)?
Favored class bonus: +1 Hp, or +1/6 aura bonus?
Fey Foundling as my first level feat.
Initially use a Light Shield until either, I pick up Power Attack (then, consider buckler) or I pick up gloves of storing, then take Heavy Shield.
I will try to have a +4 Charisma by 7th so I can use Ultimate Mercy then without the Extra Lay on Hands feat (not that it is a bad choice).
Since I can't use Living Steel, I don't really see any special materials that interest me. I may take Fire Steel for my Scimitar.
(Very) Long term thoughts on gear by slot
- Fire Steel Scimitar +x, Furyborn seems like it would be effective in PFS, Menacing and Courageous also seem like good options. Can I enchant a shield as +1 Menacing weapon to get the bonus even though I am not attacking with it?
- Heavy or Light Shield +x, Rallying? Would this stack with Aasimar favored class option? Alternatively, use and enchant shield cloak if allowed in PFS.
- Cold Iron Kukri
- Masterwork Composite Longbow
- Four Mirror Armor -> Full Plate + x, Champion?
- Rings: Ring of Protection, Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Evasion?
- Rod of Metamagic, Extend or Maximize (Minor)?
- Belt of Giant Strength -> Physical Might
- Cassock of the Clergy or nothing?
- Spectral Shroud, Merciful Baldric
- Inquisitor's Monocle
- Boots of the Cat and/or Boots of Striding and Springing
- Glove of Storing
- Circlet of Persuasion/Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
- Headband of Alluring Cha -> aerial agility or mental prowess/superiority
- Amulet of Natural Armor or Hand of Glory for 3rd ring? Is there another way to get natural AC?
- Juggernaut's Pauldrons or Cloak of Displacement, Minor?
- Bracelets of Silver Smiting
- Misc: Heward's Hand Haversack, Shining Wayfinder, Iouns stones (I don't know anything about the resonating abilities other than there are some or something.), Lantern of Revealing
Is there any way to pick up luck bonuses to attack to capitalize on the Fate's Favored trait?
Deadmanwalking
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Auras aren't worth it. Go HP or skill points.
Divine Favor is on your spell list, and a Luck bonus to attacks and damage. A pretty solid one with Fate's Favored. Jingasa's also awesome for Fate's Favored, and a Stone of Good Luck combined with those two lets you apply it to almost literally everything.
And if you don't want to invest ranks in UMD, an Ioun Stone of +2 Int granting UMD as a Class Skill is pretty acquirable...though more of a high level solution than one you can grab early on.