Hi everyone,
Very new to the game, so bear with me if the answer to these questions are "hidden in plain sight." :)
I'm in the process of helping someone create a character with the Oracle class. A couple questions have come up:
1. As we're going through the different Mysteries, we were wondering if it was okay to alter the patron deities for certain Mysteries to fit in with that character's personality and back story? For instance, can we choose the Heaven mystery, but add/remove a deity to fit in with that character's dislikes/likes (i.e. add Shelyn to the list of deities for the Heaven Mystery)?
2. Additionally, how do the chosen deities for said Mystery actually impact the game, or are they more utilized as plot tools for the GM?
3. Does the PC get the benefits from said deities, listed in the "Gods and Magic" booklet?
Thank you!
They dont get anything other than the mysteries themselves, which is a shame. The god you follow only decides your mystery and cleric spells.
Your Mystery is not restricted by your god.
An Oracle, of any Mystery, can follow any god, or no god at all.
What makes this confusing is the fact that oracle mysteries are associated with deities at all. But if we interpret the deities listed with the mysteries as the deities who grant the powers regardless of the preferences of the oracle, then you could (rightly, in my opinion) have oracles who despise the source of their powers. A lawful good oracle who hates Lamashtu but gains her mystery powers from Lamashtu could actually work, it seems.
Who you worship has no bearing on your mysteries. to stress Nada Zilch zip. the personal beliefs of your character have no bearing on the divine source of your powers. You can worship a large toad and you can still lay down the holy.
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Deity doesn't do a thing to an oracle's class features. You can worship whoever you want and get whatever mystery you want and your spells and spontaneous casting are determined by your own alignment.
You can worship a large toad and you can still lay down the holy.
All glory to the hypno-toad?
Okay, great. All of your responses have helped end a day-long argument. I'm glad to hear the choice between the various Mysteries and their "associated" deities seems to be more a matter of preference when it comes to actual worship. I'd hate to have him be "stuck" with worshiping a set of deities he doesn't particularly feel passionate about just for the sake of taking up a preferred Mystery (although I could understand why that could be the case, too).
Also, I like David knott's idea of perhaps enjoying the powers of the deities listed, but not necessarily "supporting" said deities; maybe even being antagonistic towards them. I'll suggest that as a possible alternative to the player, too.
Thank you!
To echo others sentiments, the Oracle is disconnected from their source of deific power. Often unaware of whom bestows their power.
So, you can choose to worship Shelyn. However, if she is not listed in the mystery you would like to select you (as a player) can be sure that Shelyn isn't granting your character their power.
If you want to be a divine caster who is vested power from their deity, you are looking at a cleric, not an oracle.
These divine vessels are granted power without their choice, selected by providence to wield powers that even they do not fully understand. Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals. Instead of worshiping a single source, oracles tend to venerate all of the gods that share their beliefs.
This mystery can represent a devotion to one ideal, prayers to deities that support the concept, or a natural calling to champion a cause.
So, if you are an Oracle of the Heavens, some combination of Desna, Gozreh, Pharasma, and Sarenrae (and possibly other gods of similar purview) grant you your magic without your consent. They chose you, deal with it.
You don't have to worship them. You could follow an ideal, cause, concept, or even another deity.
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Who you worship has no bearing on your mysteries. to stress Nada Zilch zip. the personal beliefs of your character have no bearing on the divine source of your powers. You can worship a large toad and you can still lay down the holy.
This gives me the idea for a CE Battle Oracle who receives her powers from Iomedae.
"I have provided you an incredible gift, my child... Now if you would please stop using it to ravage villages I would greatly appreciate it."
"You're not my mom Iomedae you can't tell me what to do"
Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity. Though, I'm not sure the character has any way to find out from whom their power comes in the first place.
I dunno, just seems like a good god wouldn't keep supplying power to an evil individual.
As long as iomedae is a code word for hypno toad your good to go.
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Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity. Though, I'm not sure the character has any way to find out from whom their power comes in the first place.
I dunno, just seems like a good god wouldn't keep supplying power to an evil individual.
In hopes of redemption?
Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity.
Oracles don't get to have their powers revoked, ever. Doesn't matter if they go from being the worst of the worst to the best of the best and back again and forward and they spit in the eye of the god who gave them the power. They don't have to care about the gods at all. Besides, would be hilariously fun to see an oracle refer to saranrae as mom like that.
I have an atheist time oracle myself.
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Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity. Though, I'm not sure the character has any way to find out from whom their power comes in the first place.
I dunno, just seems like a good god wouldn't keep supplying power to an evil individual.
Oracles are born with their power. Maybe there is a link that draws power from the divine that the divine beings can't control. Gods are beings of immense power and it could be conceivable that people can somethings tap into this power that neither the person or god can fully control or understand.
Oracles are born with their power.
Unless they get it at level 2.
The flavor text seems to infer they were chosen rather than a fluke. That said, they're flavor is pretty flexible compared to a cleric because of their mechanics, if you can get past the curse thing, but some curses are more negligible than others.
Oracles are not necessarily born with their power, even at level one. At some point you are chosen by a deity to imbued with a portion of their power. If they can choose you, they could presumably revoke it.
Now, the Oracle class description does not account for this presumably on the premise that the Oracle does not require one specific deity to power them, but rather a cadre of deities could provide the power.
I'm not suggesting that the Oracle would ever actually lose their power, but rather Iomedae would stop providing it and another deity would step into her place.
I realize the distinction is superfluous, but it's just how I imagine it functioning.
Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity. Though, I'm not sure the character has any way to find out from whom their power comes in the first place.
I dunno, just seems like a good god wouldn't keep supplying power to an evil individual.
The text in the Oracle class indicates you don't receive your magic from one, but several, divine beings.
So, Yes, a CE Battle Oracle gets their power from Iomedae, but also from Cayden Cailean, Gorum, abd Rovagug. If Iomedae doesn't like what he does with it, I am sure Gorum and Rovagug don't mind at all.
Oracles are born with their power. Maybe there is a link that draws power from the divine that the divine beings can't control.
Probably not born with them (though possible). But they don't choose for themselves to become oracles, the gods imbue them with that power.
Now why Iomedae and Rovagug are teaming up to power a Battle Oracle who doesn't have to work for or worship either of them is a good question. Maybe the Oracle just promoting the ideal of combat helps them in some way.
Oracles also do not necessarily gain their power from a specific deity, or any deity at all.
Well, it certainly says they gain their powers from deities, just not a single deity, but rather all the deities involved. And without the need to know/worship/or even acknowledge them for the power they have bestowed.
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Oracle's powers based off whatever concept you want. My first bone Oracle for example was based on the idea that Zypus had a romantic crush on her. How does he show it? Bringing her dead brother back as a zombie of course. Cassandra and Tirsias from Greek myth have good back stories for Oracles as do Moses and Joan of Arc.
Basically anything you can come up with works.
Eh...I'm not sure that works. I think if Iomedae provided the power she would revoke it if you were doing evil, and instead you would receive your power from another deity. Though, I'm not sure the character has any way to find out from whom their power comes in the first place.
I dunno, just seems like a good god wouldn't keep supplying power to an evil individual.
The text in the Oracle class indicates you don't receive your magic from one, but several, divine beings.
So, Yes, a CE Battle Oracle gets their power from Iomedae, but also from Cayden Cailean, Gorum, abd Rovagug. If Iomedae doesn't like what he does with it, I am sure Gorum and Rovagug don't mind at all.
That isn't half as amusing as Iomedae stubbornly sticking to her chosen champion despite all indication she has no desire to be Lawful Good, though.
You could go the Greek route and say when a God performs a miracle it cannot be undone. Once Iomedae's blessed you with her power she's stuck with you. It's different from a cleric because the oracle's powers are innate and manifested through the curse, similar to the sorcerer's bloodline.
You could play a Tongues Oracle and argue with one of Iomedae's cohorts in Celestial about what you're doing during combat.
My take on the Oracle has always been that they have taken on an aspect of divinity themselves, even if only a tiny sliver of it. The gods, or whatever powers that be, have somehow blessed/cursed a mortal with their power. This might be accidental, or orchestrated, or intended, etc. Or maybe Oracles have the potential to become gods themselves, if they ever manage to realize their full potential.
However they have tapped into the divine, an Oracle's power is their own. They are not servants of the gods, they are beholden to no one for their powers.
Can they choose to serve a deity’s cause? Of course. But so too could they campaign to end all the gods permanently.
Their will is their own, and so is their power.
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I disagree about their power being there own, but we are now discussing fluff that isn't really clearly laid out. Nor does it really matter from a rules perspective.
Each of our intepretations is valid, so long as we agree that an oracle cannot be stripped of their power for not adhering to a specific code or alignment.
As noted, this is because while an individual or multiple gods can be the source of power, if one god disagrees with the actions of the individual the others will supply in their stead.
Apollo granted oracular powers to Cassandra. When she refused to lay with him in exchange, she was cursed - nobody would believe her - but kept her powers.
On the other hand, Venus laid with Anchises, disguised as a young girl. He became lame for this deed and for seeing her in her divine form the morning after, but he had supposedly oracular powers in exchange - other than a Goddess' son, Aeneas. After that he married another woman and lived his life as he most pleased.
Also, if you don't like any of the particular gods associated with particular mysteries, the "Demigods" page of Inner Sea Gods associates certain mysteries with whole groups of lesser deities. So, for example, you could get access to the Life mystery from virtually any empyreal lord.