Wish, Miracle, and spell schools

[Kot the Protector]

Hello all!

My players and I are winding to the end of our 20th level 10th mythic tier campaign, and I am having a bit of conundrum that we are having trouble finding an answer for:

Wish and Miracle are listed as Universal and Evocation spells respectively. When they use these spells to dubplicate the ffects of another spell that is not Universal or Evocation, does does the Wish/Miracle count as having the school of the duplicated spell effect? Moreover, can a cleric with Miracle and Spell Focus Evocation add the bonus to the DC if they duplicate a non-Evocation spell?

Do Wish/Miracle change scools or spell descriptors wen duplicating a spell, or are they what they are listed as?

Thanks for the help!

[aceDiamond]

I think since both Wish and Miracle say they replicate the spells' effects, then they gain description and schools.

[TyrKnight]

Based on the first four listings for Wish, I'd say it loses the evocation school if used to duplicate a conjuration effect and gains the conjuration school. Otherwise, why would it matter if the spell being duplicated is from an opposition school or not?

[Kot the Protector]

I think I'm only hesitant to believe you because the spells have schools listed and they don't mention anything about the spell necessarily taking on the traits of a spell beyond its effects.

[TyrKnight]

"Duplicated spells allow saves and Spell Resistance as normal (but save DCs are for 9th-level spells)."

So as normal would be for the spell being duplicated, with the specific exception for the DCs being for a 9th level spell. That suggests to me if you duplicate a conjuration spell and have spell focus in conjuration, that you get to add that into the spell. Likewise if you duplicate a spell with a fire descriptor and have a class ability that adds extra damage or increases the caster level for that spell (pyromaniac gnomes), it would add in.

If you use wish to duplicate a bestow curse spell, is that not a curse anymore? Does it not have that descriptor? I think it does, and is subject to all the normal restrictions of curses.

[Alleran]

Kot the Protector wrote:

I think I'm only hesitant to believe you because the spells have schools listed and they don't mention anything about the spell necessarily taking on the traits of a spell beyond its effects.

This, more or less.

You're duplicating the effects of a spell. It doesn't actually become that spell or spell school - it's still a wish/miracle (i.e. 9th level, which is why it retains the save DCs). What it is, however, is a wish/miracle that is imitating the effects of a different spell without actually being that spell.

[blahpers]

Part of the effects of the spell, though, is the spell's synergy with other abilities such as Spell Focus or Augment Summoning. I'm inclined to treat the result as the duplicated spell in every respect (save the increased DC mentioned in the text).

[Kot the Protector]

blahpers wrote:

Part of the effects of the spell, though, is the spell's synergy with other abilities such as Spell Focus or Augment Summoning. I'm inclined to treat the result as the duplicated spell in every respect (save the increased DC mentioned in the text).

I've never heard of this, has there been another discussion about this kind of thing? I think it sounds pretty cool.

One of my players has Spell Focus Evocation, and they also want to know if they will apply to the save DC of Miracle when they are finally able to cast it.

[Kot the Protector]

Would the synergy suggest that a Wish or a Miracle take on multiple traits and use the one most beneficial to the caster? (ie. a fey sorcerer uses Wish to duplicate a spell with the enchantment school and the compulsion descriptor, would her Spell Focus Enchantment and her bloodline arcana both activate and improve the spell?)

[TyrKnight]

For a 25,000 gold piece value material component, I'd say yes. Letting someone go broke casting Wish is fine by me. I've been gaming 30 years and don't remember using Wish ever in combat. I don't think it would stack -- you could not get spell focus evocation (the school of wish) and spell focus enchantment.