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Why would have a memorial for someone who was born and assumed still alive?
Would things be better if we remembered everyone equally?
No, sorry if my sympathy meter is empty when it comes to executed criminals, drug addicts who OD or people who are crushed by soda machines as they were trying to shake them for a free drink.
Lives are not equally lived, nor should they be remembered equally.
Some who are great or who tried to do good things are remembered for their actions. Others who were cut down unjustly or who died before living out their potential also draws on something in each of us, something we can relate to in our lives. People want to memorialize that - they want a marker.
I'm not saying that one life is worth more than another...oh wait, I am saying that.
Life is celebrated by the act of living, you don't get a gold star for being born (except on your birthdays), and your reward is something that the dead cannot share in: you get to draw in another breath and live another moment of life.
I would give survivors of terrible disease some kind of credit for their strength and perseverance – but something just for being born?
Beyond celebrating your birthday, No.
If you're good at what you do people may honor you after you die or as you get old. If you are really good at what you do, they may honor you while you are alive and good health - but this is rare, humans generally do not know what they have until they lose it.
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I value life; I just tend to value the lives the victims of a drunk driver vs. the driver who died killing them (as an example of weighing the value of different lives).
Is this bad that it happened and a waste of life all around? Yes.
Do I feel bad for the driver’s family for their loss? Yes.
If I had to trade out the life of either the driver or his victim, guess who I'd bring back? That right there means that I do not value all life equally. Sorry if that seems callous or uncaring to you.
When people die in an event that has national significance, like this one, the memorials are put in place by the state. Otherwise, the memorials are put in place by the families - in cemeteries.
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So no one values the sanctity of All life equally? The problem in a nutshell...
In this case, even your OP is about inequality. What about those who weren't born in hospitals? Are they less worty of comemoration? What about animals and plants? If you talk big words about the sanctity of all life, why comemorate humans more then them?
I think, the answer is easy - many of us don't know any of those whose life is comemorated in memorials - but the event(s) that lead to them being comemorated in this place meant something to us - and we do comemorate the event more then the life intwined. Other then that, we comemorate those that were dear to us, families, friends etc, by the means we deem right for that. For me, that has nothing to do with the sanctity of life but with what we value in our own memories.
I've always been okay with the idea of my corpse being thrown in a dumpster.
A burial suit designed to decompose your body quickly, safely and completely.
I've always been okay with the idea of my corpse being thrown in a dumpster.
Mmmmm....Noted. If it ever comes up... :)
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I've always been okay with the idea of my corpse being thrown in a dumpster.Seems a waste. Med students can always use cadavers.
You know Med Students can go dumpster diving on their own right? Seriously the medical field as steadily declined since the schools started providing the cadavers instead of students having to find their own.
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So no one values the sanctity of All life equally? The problem in a nutshell...You're damn right I value the innocent lives lost in terrorism more than I do the terrorists lives. I don't think my values are a f&@#ing problem, and if you do sounds like you need to look in a mirror.
So you dont think that it might be better for us all if we did comemerate every child born, despite how they might spend that life? Yes, i'm suggesting everything that has gone wrong has gone wrong because we dont.
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This may be one of the best responses ever. Such a great visual.You know Med Students can go dumpster diving on their own right? Seriously the medical field as steadily declined since the schools started providing the cadavers instead of students having to find their own.I've always been okay with the idea of my corpse being thrown in a dumpster.Seems a waste. Med students can always use cadavers.
Knife-jockeys desecrating your corpse so someone else can enjoy immortality offends me.
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How would you feel if you lived near a memorial for someone who murdered someone you cared about? Do you think that would be better?So you dont think that it might be better for us all if we did comemerate every child born, despite how they might spend that life? Yes, i'm suggesting everything that has gone wrong has gone wrong because we dont.So no one values the sanctity of All life equally? The problem in a nutshell...You're damn right I value the innocent lives lost in terrorism more than I do the terrorists lives. I don't think my values are a f&@#ing problem, and if you do sounds like you need to look in a mirror.
I'm not talking about memorials to who we become, i'm talking about memorials comemerating all life equally. And you live next to memorials dedicated to people who take other peoples lives...war memorials. You dont always see the names of slaughtered refugees on war memorials, you see the names of the people who did the slaughtering. As a war memorial the 9-11 site is unique in that it remembers both. But there is yet to be a memorial to a president or monarch who didnt have someone killed.
I beleive in life and equality. So yes i'm ok with a memorial listing every human born no matter who they turned out to be.
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You heard it here first folks, YD wants to commemerate terrorists, and it is my not wanting to that is immoral and the problem with the world.How would you feel if you lived near a memorial for someone who murdered someone you cared about? Do you think that would be better?So you dont think that it might be better for us all if we did comemerate every child born, despite how they might spend that life? Yes, i'm suggesting everything that has gone wrong has gone wrong because we dont.So no one values the sanctity of All life equally? The problem in a nutshell...You're damn right I value the innocent lives lost in terrorism more than I do the terrorists lives. I don't think my values are a f&@#ing problem, and if you do sounds like you need to look in a mirror.I'm not talking about memorials to who we become, i'm talking about memorials comemerating all life equally. And you live next to memorials dedicated to people who take other peoples lives...war memorials. You dont always see the names of slaughtered refugees on war memorials, you see the names of the people who did the slaughtering. As a war memorial the 9-11 site is unique in that it remembers both. But there is yet to be a memorial to a president or monarch who didnt have someone killed.
I beleive in life and equality. So yes i'm ok with a memorial listing every human born no matter who they turned out to be.
Not for terrorism though...understand the difference and your children will be remembered as equals with the rest of the populace.
Should we just comemerate the dead of human conflict?A time for everything and everything in its place. There are other locations that commemorate the dead from other events.
I can't help but wonder, out of all the statues that commemorate the lost through all the world, why you want to pick on one that commemorates the Americans who died from terrorism. What's your agenda?
Or should we have memorials at hospitals identifying everyone born there? Should it be a celebration of life?Not only is this a bad idea, it is illegal. Some people, (or most people, depending on your views) do not deserve to be commemorated.
Would things be better if we remembered everyone equally?And this would be impossible.
I prefer what the Tao Te Ching says:
Those who have been killed
Should be mourned with sadness
Victory in war should be treated as a funeral
Yes, even victory should be mourned, because the human cost was very real. It is good and right to pay respect to the fallen enemies (even the enemies of the nation that are heavily vilified). Because human life once extinguished cannot be restored.
We're all born morally equal, but our choices define us differently.
That is not entirely true.
You start chaotic evil, pray you do not return to it.
Could you rephrase that?
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So you prefer memorials to the great achievers who grit the drive of civilization with the bones of ordinary people whose only achievement is being born human. Ok.
Do these fit your description? Or this?? Did they 'grit the drive of civilization with the bones of ordinary people'?
Did you read any of the replies made to your OP at all?
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So wait are you saying we should have a memorial for just being born? Kinda like those silly participation awards for pee wee sports in America have? Hey look I show up where is my trophy? Kinda of thing.
Yeah Yellow Dingo has jumped the shark folks.
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So wait are you saying we should have a memorial for just being born? Kinda like those silly participation awards for pee wee sports in America have? Hey look I show up where is my trophy? Kinda of thing.
Yeah Yellow Dingo has jumped the shark folks.
I see no problem with commemorating life, despite the decade and half of poisonous brainwashing of my beloved fellow dirt kickers causing them to object to basic humanity. You are Like puppies stuck in a bag and beaten till savage.
Taking America as the subject, they could make a lot of cool memorials if they commemorated all of the different peoples they have blown into dust. It might help the young better learn historical contexts; and while propaganda would abound, I am waiting for a giant Taliban statue of an rpger surrounded by goats.
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I see no problem with commemorating life, despite the decade and half of poisonous brainwashing of my beloved fellow dirt kickers causing them to object to basic humanity. You are Like puppies stuck in a bag and beaten till savage.The difference isn't that we value life less than you do so get off your high horse. Remember, you're the one bothered by allowing your corpse to be used to further life, obviously we value life more than you do. The difference is that you would profane (as in the actual definition "to make common") the construction of memorials.
So Memorializing all citizens as equals profanes memorials...ok. Memorials profane the equal importance of life when they tell you one life is more/less important than the rest.
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Or America could have memorials made in its honorof all the countries they've saved, because Europeans could stand to be reminded of the past as well.
It seems you have not been told the truth. There were other European countries involved in world war 2 that fought longer, harder, did more and were far more responsible for ending the Nazi threat. Look up on the victories of the Russians for instance. The UK and British empire kept fighting even when pushed to the brink of collapse, and they stuck it out from start to finish. No late entry for them.
Misinformation can be easy to come by if you are taking Captain America as your source on WW2. If you read up on the conflict, you will find the Europeans were far more centre stage than the late entrant of the USA. This especially applies to saving Europe and finishing of the Nazis in Berlin and elsewhere.
I am also pleased to once again see that when you bring up the destruction of US adventurism and neo-colonialism, someone has to point to that one time when they were the good guys. Milk it for all its worth, please, the good guy capital won't last forever.
To give credit where it is due, the debt owed is not European. The greater debt is owed by Australia. The Americans were far more important actors in the Pacific theatre than in Europe, and Australia surely would have fallen had it not been for the USA working alongside Australia to end the Japanese Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Of course, from saving the region to meddling in the region, America would go on to lose their capital by backing dictators of Asia, and then invading Vietnam and destroying that country.
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I do hate to stick with the unfashionable great man view of history, but I think anyone that is honoured should have actually done something significant or paid the ultimate price in service of an impressive ideal.
Burning everyone's name onto the moon seems like crude graffiti.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Or America could have memorials made in its honorof all the countries they've saved, because Europeans could stand to be reminded of the past as well.
They have not forgotten.
St. Mere Eglise
Normandy
Bastogne
Nijmegen
You can find more.
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IIRC, DM Under the Bridge isn't European.
IIRC, he is Australian. Here are more of his comments on WWII:
"To give credit where it is due, the debt owed is not European. The greater debt is owed by Australia. The Americans were far more important actors in the Pacific theatre than in Europe, and Australia surely would have fallen had it not been for the USA working alongside Australia to end the Japanese Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Of course, from saving the region to meddling in the region, America would go on to lose their capital by backing dictators of Asia, and then invading Vietnam and destroying that country."
It seems you have not been told the truth. There were other European countries involved in world war 2 that fought longer, harder, did more and were far more responsible for ending the Nazi threat. Look up on the victories of the Russians for instance. The UK and British empire kept fighting even when pushed to the brink of collapse, and they stuck it out from start to finish. No late entry for them.Oh, I know the truth, you're just blinded by your own anti-American feelings. And while European countries might have fought longer, they didn't fight nearly so well. What country was it that freed Paris and kept her free? Who was it that Churchhill begged for aid? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Or did you think it was just coincidence that the germans started losing ground when America entered the fray?
I am also pleased to once again see that when you bring up the destruction of US adventurism and neo-colonialism, someone has to point to that one time when they were the good guys. Milk it for all its worth, please, the good guy capital won't last forever.Europeans really, REALLY shouldn't try and preach at Americans about colonialism.
Europeans didn't fight nearly so well? Ever hear of Stalingrad, and the Russians sweeping over the territory of Germany on the way to Berlin? Ever hear of the Eastern front?
Here is a wonderful timeline to show you just how many battles there were, so you can get a sense of the larger picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Eastern_Front_of_World_War_II
Churchill begging for aid from America that had been sitting out, doesn't mean that the Russians didn't do more of the fighting and conquering, or that the Brits weren't fighting longer and harder. Ever hear of the battle for Britain? The Luftschlacht um England? It wasn't an American victory, lol.
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So you prefer memorials to the great achievers who grit the drive of civilization with the bones of ordinary people whose only achievement is being born human. Ok.Do these fit your description? Or this?? Did they 'grit the drive of civilization with the bones of ordinary people'?
Yes, with their own.
I've always been okay with the idea of my corpse being thrown in a dumpster.
Your loved ones probably feel differently. Memorials are not foe the dead they are for those who survive them.
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It seems you have not been told the truth. There were other European countries involved in world war 2 that fought longer, harder, did more and were far more responsible for ending the Nazi threat. Look up on the victories of the Russians for instance. The UK and British empire kept fighting even when pushed to the brink of collapse, and they stuck it out from start to finish. No late entry for them.Oh, I know the truth, you're just blinded by your own anti-American feelings. And while European countries might have fought longer, they didn't fight nearly so well. What country was it that freed Paris and kept her free? Who was it that Churchhill begged for aid? It wasn't the Soviet Union. Or did you think it was just coincidence that the germans started losing ground when America entered the fray?
I am also pleased to once again see that when you bring up the destruction of US adventurism and neo-colonialism, someone has to point to that one time when they were the good guys. Milk it for all its worth, please, the good guy capital won't last forever.Europeans really, REALLY shouldn't try and preach at Americans about colonialism.Europeans didn't fight nearly so well? Ever hear of Stalingrad, and the Russians sweeping over the territory of Germany on the way to Berlin? Ever hear of the Eastern front?
Here is a wonderful timeline to show you just how many battles there were, so you can get a sense of the larger picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Eastern_Front_of_World_War_II
Churchill begging for aid from America that had been sitting out, doesn't mean that the Russians didn't do more of the fighting and conquering, or that the Brits weren't fighting longer and harder. Ever hear of the battle for Britain? The Luftschlacht um England? It wasn't an American victory, lol.
Truthfully, Europeans did the majority of the fighting and dying in both WWI and WWII. They were after all European Wars with the majority of occupants being European. That does not mean that the allies win either war without aid from the U.S. For instance imagine what happens to the British Navy if the Japanese Navy entered the Atlantic theatre or the Russians without the money, equipment, food etc. provided by the U.S. There is no need to denigrate the efforts of either group as it is impossible to quantify what would have happened without any particular combatant.
That is a pretty sober middle ground. Agreed.
You know this thread reminds me of the Firefly epsiode...the one with the statue of Jayne.