Hey everyone, I've though of a character idea for a lvl 10 game one of my friends is running and after asking them about it they said that however I could get it to work would be alright since they thought it sounded cool, hoooowever I honestly am drawing a blank as to how to make it work lol.
The idea is sorta like a Bruce banner/Hulk idea in many ways, with a seemingly human person being the main persona the interacts with people usually, however the character is in truth an outsider (demon, angel, whatever it's not been decided) that was sealed up to human form and locking the real persona away. Combat would usually be letting that state out, but of course a class that does something like that isn't something I know of, but since the DM said "if you can work it all go ahead" I was wondering if anyone had some thoughts?
in the end I can probably just write up two different sheets and swap them around if nothing else lol.
Synthesist Summoner will do exactly what you want it to do. That or a rework of the Alchemist. I'd personally go for Synthesist.
Really? I'm not really aquainted with the summoner but I thought synthesist just made the eidolon into a kind of "stat suit"
Synthesist Summoner, especially Elf to reduce the time to summon Eidolon/transform.
Really? I'm not really aquainted with the summoner but I thought synthesist just made the eidolon into a kind of "stat suit"
You look different too (can't see how you would wear an eidolon with wing, 10 arms, fangs, claws, etc without changing your appearance).
Beastmorph Alchemist/Master Chymist
Barbarian, especially Totem powers, could work well.
The skinwalker and kitsune, maybe Tengu with Long-nose Form, races also make easy to work with bases for this type of character.
Synthesist Summoner will do exactly what you want it to do. That or a rework of the Alchemist. I'd personally go for Synthesist.Really? I'm not really aquainted with the summoner but I thought synthesist just made the eidolon into a kind of "stat suit"
Kind of, but that is the point. The new form, the eidolon, would replace the existing character - hence the "combat" form.
Synthesist Summoner, especially Elf to reduce the time to summon Eidolon/transform.
You look different too (can't see how you would wear an eidolon with wing, 10 arms, fangs, claws, etc without changing your appearance).
Beastmorph Alchemist/Master Chymist
Barbarian, especially Totem powers, could work well.
The skinwalker and kitsune, maybe Tengu with Long-nose Form, races also make easy to work with bases for this type of character.
Alright I suppose I see the point being made there lol, I honestly never thought about it since I know only a base knowledge of the summoner in general, but even though the synthesist is technically putting 'on' something I could see the flavor instead be bringing something out.
How does summoner do with multiclassing into things like barbarian or other combat heavy classes, or does it do regular combat just fine? I know it casts as it's primary, or am I woefully unaware of eidolon power lol
Summoner casts about as much as a Druid does, which is to say it casts well, but its just as capable of being built as a melee beast with casting as a side gig.
oh ok thats pretty cool then!, while I'm taking notes and looking for the summoners stuff to start does anyone have some suggestions on what to look into for synthesist summoners or anything to avoid?
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How does summoner do with multiclassing into things like barbarian or other combat heavy classes, or does it do regular combat just fine? I know it casts as it's primary, or am I woefully unaware of eidolon power lol
Synthesist works well for melee, the problem is more to restrain yourself when building it so that the rest of the party can still have fun and you don't make the DM cry.
Yes, you would need to reflavor it, but the mechanics work for what you want. Coming up with the flavor explanation for it would be part of the fun.
Alchemist/Master Chymist seems like a more obvious fit, though. That is designed to emulate Jeckyl&Hyde.
How does summoner do with multiclassing into things like barbarian or other combat heavy classes, or does it do regular combat just fine? I know it casts as it's primary, or am I woefully unaware of eidolon power lol
Synthesist works well for melee, the problem is more to restrain yourself when building it so that the rest of the party can still have fun and you don't make the DM cry.
Yes, you would need to reflavor it, but the mechanics work for what you want. Coming up with the flavor explanation for it would be part of the fun.
Alchemist/Master Chymist seems like a more obvious fit, though. That is designed to emulate Jeckyl&Hyde.
I actually did look into the alchemist, but I just really don't like the feel of how the mutagen works, since it reduces mental stats and all, and I can't help feel the potions a bit clunky since my party members can't even benifit from them lol
Edit- I should say I also have no idea what master Chymist does cause I don't think I have the book it's in, might be wrong though lol
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I've been playing a multiclassed barbarian/alchemist recently, it seems to harmonize pretty well and definitely allows for your in hulk/banner concept, generally a mild mannered alchemist, in combat a roided up rage monster.
When thing your description made me think of as well is the tongues curse of the Oracle, which makes you speak in an obscure language while stressed or in combat, sort of fits the mold, especially the demon/whatever trapped inside bit. However it doesn't have much mechanically that stands up to the concept.
I've been playing a multiclassed barbarian/alchemist recently, it seems to harmonize pretty well and definitely allows for your in hulk/banner concept, generally a mild mannered alchemist, in combat a roided up rage monster.
When thing your description made me think of as well is the tongues curse of the Oracle, which makes you speak in an obscure language while stressed or in combat, sort of fits the mold, especially the demon/whatever trapped inside bit. However it doesn't have much mechanically that stands up to the concept.
Hell Banner/hulk was the only similar character I could think of, but not necessarily 'rage monster', sorta like they were something grander and been stuck in a human form (not that all these idea don't work fine heh). The oracle curse idea is actually pretty nifty, I might just ask if I can have that from the DM.
There's an NPC very similar to your concept in the old Bioware Jade Empire game - it's a little girl that is possessed by a powerful spirit (two, actually). When she's in danger the spirit takes over and she turns into a 10' combat monster.
I do think synthesist summoner is the best way to play such a character, but keep in mind that it can be a very powerful class.
If your GM allows 3pp stuff, The Guardian (written by Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick) is a great class that is somewhat similar to the Synthesist mechanically but has a more He-Man/Power Rangers/Sailor Moon feel to it.
It should be easy to find with a quick google search.
It should be easy to find with a quick google search.
Seemingly incorrect.
Synthesist summoner works great, though. Just don't put a trillion arms and a scorpion tail on the incredible hulk and everything should go fine. I suggest just boosting str, con, and dex with most of your points and then take the large size upgrade when you can. That should speak for most of your points.
If your GM allows 3pp stuff, The Guardian (written by Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick) is a great class that is somewhat similar to the Synthesist mechanically but has a more He-Man/Power Rangers/Sailor Moon feel to it.
It should be easy to find with a quick google search.
Yeah I'm having a pretty hard time finding it actually XD
So here is what the 16 points at level 10 can get you (assuming you have taken extra evolution twice):
16 str con dex
Large 4 +8 +4 -2
Dex*2 4 +4
Str*1 4 +2
Con*1 4 +2
Str/dex N/A +4 +4
Chosen Bonus +2
Total +16 +8 +6
start 16 13 12
total 32 19 18
mod +11 +4 +4
If you want to hit with big meaty fists then take one fewer dex buff and put one of those two points into a slam attack (stepping from 1d6 slashing with claws to 2d6 bludgeoning with each fist)
BAB=+7
Amulet of mighty fists +2 (now cheaper with errata!)
Belt of bull's strength: +2 (for a total strength mod of 12!)
Size penalty: -1
So:
Attack w/ claws=+20/+15 for 1d6+14 w/ each claw
Two weapon fighting build (recommended?):
+18/+18/+13/+13 for 1d6+14 w/ each claw
Hypothetical twf:
bab=10
Str=22 (+6)(w/ belt of str for +2)
Weap. spec: +2 to damage
Weap. foc: +1
Weapon enhancement: +2
Weapon training: +2 to strength and damage
Two weapon warrior ability: +1 when twf (reduce two weapon penalty by 1)
Double sword twf:
+20/+20/+15/+15 for 1d8+12 slashing damage (probably with chance of rend and what-have you)
No one's toes are getting badly stepped on too too hard and the hulk is able to smash and is hard to kill while the fighter is harder to hit.
-awesome stuff-
Oh thanks Excalibur this is nice to see :D, it helps with plotting some things out lol, likely won't get 'as' high a strength since we don't use pure stat items like the belt, but everything else looks pretty darn kosher!
Yeah I'm having a pretty hard time finding it actually XDIf your GM allows 3pp stuff, The Guardian (written by Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick) is a great class that is somewhat similar to the Synthesist mechanically but has a more He-Man/Power Rangers/Sailor Moon feel to it.
It should be easy to find with a quick google search.
If your GM allows Psionics:
Aegis: Kind of like the Synthesist, but is a warrior (Full BAB, d10 HD, no Spells/Powers inherent).
And the Aberrant archtype for the Aegis is a great idea too. Instead of putting on a magic suit, you transform your body!
Here You Go!Yeah I'm having a pretty hard time finding it actually XDIf your GM allows 3pp stuff, The Guardian (written by Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick) is a great class that is somewhat similar to the Synthesist mechanically but has a more He-Man/Power Rangers/Sailor Moon feel to it.
It should be easy to find with a quick google search.
Thanks :), it does look pretty fun but I think I'll still go for the summoner if only because a good secondary buffer in the party will come in handy when beating isn't an option, and to Samasboy1 I'll definitely have to use that class sometime it looks awesome!
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Synthesis Summoner (as stated by others) is really your best bet.
Flavor
Flavor-wise, think of your "normal" or "out of combat" character as a vessel (sentient as it might be) for a much grander force that is the "real" you or your "combat" character. You are forever bound to this force because you are one and the same, but because of your unique duality, you can do things lesser beings cannot. You are immortal but you get to experience the life-cycle of the vessel with all of its interesting nuances.
Because Charisma for you represents not only a mechanical aspect of your character but also the strength and openness of your connection to your other half, you should max it out. This will not only allow you to channel lesser energy from your unique union into your summoner abilities but also will make you more socially likable because you just have this "thing" about you (you know, when not a monstrous outsider in the heat of battle).
Role-playing wise, you might catch yourself referring to yourself in the plural with "We can't wait to try that!" or "What do you want us to do?"
Mechanics
Summoner is a pretty stat independent class (Cha 16 to cast its most powerful spells but otherwise it doesn't care). That being said, high mental ability scores for your "out of combat" character should be your main focus as your synthesis will result in you gaining the physical ability scores of your "combat" character.
Your eidolon should have very good Str, Dex, Con. Think of your non-combat character as having the "mind" of your outsider and the combat character as having the "body" of your outsider. Choose evolutions accordingly.
Suggested Spells
Spells should reflect your unique connection because they don't come from "you" they come from "both of you". There are better spells for the summoner to take, but these were the ones I would suggest thematically.
0-level: arcane mark (symbol of your outsider), detect magic, light, mage hand, mending, message; all non-combat utility spells that are manifestations of your non-combat character's will using your combat character's innate magical power
1-level: endure elements, feather fall, mage armor, shield, summon monster I, unseen servant (minor unseen avatar of your outsider); protective energy from your outsider as well as some minor minions to serve you
2-level: detect thoughts, invisibility, resist energy, see invisibility, summon monster II, summon swarm; energy resistance, utility, and more minions
3-level: dimension door, dispel magic, fly (depending if your outsider flies), marionette possession (dangerous to use, but thematically fits as "Look! I can do it too!"), summon monster IV, tongues; utility, cool possession ability, and minions
4-level: contact other plane, dismissal, magic jar, overland flight (once again, depending if your outsider flies), sending, teleport; get answers from the other side, possess and dismiss stuff, long distance flying/messaging/teleporting
5-level: banishment, greater dispel magic, plane shift, greater teleport, true seeing; go visit yourself, more utilities
6-level: binding, maze (trap a creature in your outsider's own twisted dreamscape!), greater planar binding (super minion time), teleportation circle, walk through space; utility and super minion, not to mention sending an enemy into an extradimensional dreamscape
Hope this helped,
PAz
Natural lycanthrope could be close to what you want? Werebears are obviously strong, but perhaps you and your GM could agree on some original version that's closer to your concept.
Bunch of cool stuff
Honestly I don't think I've seen someone break it down in such a concise and explanatory manner, thank you PAz this really helps with designing ideas for the final version of the character :D. I think for spells since I'm settling on a more demonic nature (not necessarily evil in nature though, just hellfire and brimstone) so I'm looking at the ones like Infernal Healing and Obsidian Flow for the cool theme powers