Elenkalina/Starlight
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The reason I ask this is that in a previous session my Lawful Good monk was acting much more in her alignment than our group paladin! And it bothered me greatly. Do I talk to the player or to the GM or just let it slide? From what I have read paladins get a great deal more scrutiny than other classes so I don't want to seem unfair. On the other hand paladins do represent the pinnacle of goodliness and when one is acting...not so good, it makes me cringe. So again I ask, how should I handle it?
Lincoln Hills
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You're best off talking to the player. And when you discuss the troubling behavior, make sure you're asking questions, not making statements. Of course, it's up to the GM to judge alignment infractions, but in a way it's better for the player to hear that there might be a problem from you, before he hears it from the GM.
Incidentally, this should probably have gone on the Advice forum, not Rules Questions.
| Kolokotroni |
First, take a deep breath. Alignment is subjective. All those threads about paladins is a function of people not agreeing on what paladins should be like and what alignment means. A general discussion on alignment with the group might be a good idea. Its entirely possible that the player and or the dm down think the behavior is out of character for a paladin. It could have just been an accidental lapse, or maybe there is a big paladin fall story arc in the works you arent aware of. Or maybe they have a far looser definition of lawful good then you. No way to know without a discussion.
Second you need to understand that IF both the gm and the player disagree with you, you will pretty much have to deal. You dont get to tell people how to 'properly' play an alignment or their characters. The gm has some say, but ultimately he doesnt get to dictate the character's behavior either (he can just make the pally fall).
| Corvino |
There are a lot of ways to play a Paladin while still being both internally consistent and obeying your code. Lawful Good is not always Lawful Nice. It depends on the character and their faith though.
A Paladin can be completely ruthless and violent towards those they percieve as Evil. I can see a Paladin on Iomedae focusing on the War, Glory and Law aspects of her portfolio rather than Light (redemption). A character like that is not necessarily Lawful Stupid, but impetuous and prone to taking the direct, confrontational approach.
It would help to know what actions you feel are not consistent with the LG alignment, Elenkalina.
Lincoln Hills
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It would help to know what actions you feel are not consistent with the LG alignment, Elenkalina.
No, it wouldn't... sorry to be blunt. If we get that info, we'd just be arguing over whether what she 'feels is not consistent' is, in fact, consistent with all our own interpretations of LG. (Again.) That's why I stuck to advising her on 'what to do', not 'whether there's a problem.'
| MrSin |
The reason I ask this is that in a previous session my Lawful Good monk was acting much more in her alignment than our group paladin!
You let it slide. Every group handles it in one way or another, and some aren't as rough or strict about things. Consider that the other player might just be having fun his way and the group isn't really into fighting about it. You aren't required to be super duper good and neither is the other player. A fighter can be a better paragon of good than a paladin and the paladin doesn't just lose his power.
If it really bothers you and is ruining your fun, you might consider chatting about it with the player and then the DM. If the player is suddenly having to deal with the fall hammer and stops having fun, then that's not really great either. Really though, its his character and not your problem.
Second you need to understand that IF both the gm and the player disagree with you, you will pretty much have to deal. You dont get to tell people how to 'properly' play an alignment or their characters. The gm has some say, but ultimately he doesnt get to dictate the character's behavior either (he can just make the pally fall).
What that guy said!
But yeah, actually getting into other players behaviors is one of the things that ruins the game for me. I've had several groups where someone is violating what I'd consider ethics, and I've had to stop and think "Is this actually worth fighting about? Is this really ruining my fun?" and to be honest most of the time it really doesn't so I just let it slide and we all enjoy the game. On the other hand, I've had other players, or even hecklers try to berate me for my actions, and try to convince the GM to punish me, and that is definitely a mood killer because I just wanted to come be friendly and enjoy the game.
| Komoda |
I agree with the second part of Blahpers' post. But I wouldn't ignore them.
If it is bugging you that the PLAYER isn't playing very LG, than it has to be outright obnoxious to your PC that the Paladin is not living up to his/her code! (As your PC sees it).
I would address it in game. Talk to the Paladin. Pick on him/her when they do things that you feel are out of the bounds of the code.
"You are a brave Paladin, Sir. It was amazing to see your courage as you looked that tied up, defenseless elf in the eye just before you ran him through. I don't think I am brave enough to do that. I would have looked away when slaying a helpless creature such as that."
Or think of it like dealing with a cop. If a cop is doing bad things, let the cop's bosses know. In the Paladin's case, a church or even a few nicely placed prayers might help you a lot.
All of my advice centers on mature players that can handle PC conflict without taking their ball and going home. If your table is not like that, then I agree COMPLETELY with what blahpers said.
| Pupsocket |
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Ignore them unless they affect you. Play your character and let others play theirs.
I agree with Blahpers on this. And I never agree with Blahpers on anything!.
Saying "I don't think the party Paladin, my fellow player, is Lawful Good enough. Not any specific infractions as such, but not up to MY standards" makes you sound...I don't know, try to parse your own post again, and tell me if you sound like the hero or the villain.
You sound Small-Town Puritan to me, with all that implies.
| Clectabled |
Keep it in character and let it become a role playing situation. Have your PC comment (IN Character) how he (she) disproves of the Paladins actions and let the Paladin respond.
Don't let become a huge issues between players but it absolutely can become a major sticking point between two PC's and that can lead to some seriously good and fun role playing.
n o 417
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blahpers wrote:Ignore them unless they affect you. Play your character and let others play theirs.I agree with Blahpers on this. And I never agree with Blahpers on anything!.
Saying "I don't think the party Paladin, my fellow player, is Lawful Good enough. Not any specific infractions as such, but not up to MY standards" makes you sound...I don't know, try to parse your own post again, and tell me if you sound like the hero or the villain.
You sound Small-Town Puritan to me, with all that implies.
If somebody "cheats" by picking a class, but ignoring the class restrictions, that is irritating. The advice in the CRB does not mean "ignore alignment and ethics alltogether".
There are different solutions however. The GM can loosen up the alignment restrictions for the paladin class up to NG and LN, for example.
| OldSkoolRPG |
If somebody "cheats" by picking a class, but ignoring the class restrictions, that is irritating. The advice in the CRB does not mean "ignore alignment and ethics alltogether".There are different solutions however. The GM can loosen up the alignment restrictions for the paladin class up to NG and LN, for example.
Except that the OP didn't say the paladin was cheating the restrictions on his class only that the OP felt he/she was playing the lawful good monk more closely to the alignment than the paladin's player.
Since the appropriate way to portray a lawful good alignment is subjective how can the OP make an objective claim that his/her way of playing lawful good is the "right" way and the other player was doing it "wrong"?
| Kolokotroni |
Pupsocket wrote:blahpers wrote:Ignore them unless they affect you. Play your character and let others play theirs.I agree with Blahpers on this. And I never agree with Blahpers on anything!.
Saying "I don't think the party Paladin, my fellow player, is Lawful Good enough. Not any specific infractions as such, but not up to MY standards" makes you sound...I don't know, try to parse your own post again, and tell me if you sound like the hero or the villain.
You sound Small-Town Puritan to me, with all that implies.
If somebody "cheats" by picking a class, but ignoring the class restrictions, that is irritating. The advice in the CRB does not mean "ignore alignment and ethics alltogether".
There are different solutions however. The GM can loosen up the alignment restrictions for the paladin class up to NG and LN, for example.
First off, there is a difference between intentionally ignoring alignment restrictions, and having different definitions of what 'good' and 'lawful' mean. If the dm and player hash out an actual paladins code, and that is ignored without issue then sure something is wrong. But in the OP the poster is basically saying the person wasnt living up to their standard. What that means we dont know, but it doesnt immediately indicate any deliberate dishonesty.
| Corvino |
I think we need a little clarification from the OP. The Paladin described is acting "not so good". I tend to understate things, so if I said something like that it could mean anything from "The Paladin did not offer me a second cup of tea" to "The Paladin burned down an orphanage".
Is this player acting in a way contrary to their obligations and faith, or are they just not upholding them to the standard the OP feels is needed?