Indecisive on fighty divine caster for Mummy's Mask

[Jiggy]

So, I recently started up a game of Mummy's Mask, but we all died about three rooms in.

So since the plot hadn't even gotten going yet, we're basically just rebooting with a fresh party and starting over from the beginning. I volunteered to play some sort of divine melee character.

Here's the rest of the party as I'm aware of it thus far:

Barbarian (invulnerable rager/urban), probably human
Rogue (prolly our "trap guy", but I have no further details)
Dawnflower Dervish bard
[Undecided]
[Undecided - me]

As you can see, we've got 1 dedicated melee, 1 half-melee/half-skills, and 1 half-melee/half-arcane.

Add me into the mix and we'll have plenty of melee plus (at least) half divine. That puts us fairly well balanced before even accounting for the 5th player.

With that in mind, I'm having trouble deciding. For starters, what class? There's like a bajillion ways to get (at least) 3/4 BAB on a divine caster. However, overall I'm leaning toward either cleric or warpriest. Cleric would mean fully-leveled divine spellcasting (and unless the 5th player goes with a wizard or something, that'll be the only full-caster we have), and would also offer channeling which would help out with healing during the poverty-stricken 1st level before we can get a CLW wand, even though the value of channeling drops off after a while. On the downside, wanting to do melee means I need a reasonable weapon proficiency, which either severely limits my deity choices or requires spending a precious feat (and EWP has a +1 BAB prereq, too). Additionally, 3/4 BAB means a reliance on first-round buff spells to keep up my to-hit.

On the other hand, warpriest gets (effectively) full BAB, all martial weapons regardless of deity, bonus feats, and (starting at 2nd) free Quickened buffs. Sounds great! Except I get reduced spellcasting; effectively a half-caster. The idea of a party with potentially no full casters at all is kinda scary. Also, I find it very possible warpriests will get nerfed once the ACG actually comes out, and making adjustments would be a pain. Finally, clerics get some pretty sweet domain powers, and lots of the warpriest blessings aren't nearly as cool.

Additionally, what about deity choice? Pharasma's on-theme for the AP, but her favored weapon is a dagger. On the other hand, the Souls subdomain (basically ghost touch on demand) could be REALLY handy in an AP like this (or so I'm guessing). Sarenrae is also on-theme, has a decent weapon (scimitar), and I can't say I would mind having the Fire and Healing domains (Fire becomes even more appealing if we have no full arcane caster). On the other hand, do we want two Sarenites on the team? Would we step on each other's toes? Another thought is Shizuru; being a Tien deity, that's a good opportunity for the Foreigner (or whatever it's called) campaign trait (we're all required to have a campaign trait), plus he has the katana as his favored weapon. He also has a couple of pretty solid domains/subdomains.

For that matter, what domains do I even really want? Something with overland flight as a domain spell would be awesome, but there's only a couple (I forget which ones) and I don't know if they're worthwhile up to that point. Things like Honor and Liberation have great 1st-level powers, Heroism has a fantastic 8th-level power... Gah! So many options!

Help!

[Phntm888]

As someone who's currently playing a Warpriest, I'd just like to say they are fantastically fun. The reduced spellcasting hasn't hurt a whole lot (although we are only level 7), but I'm highly effective as a melee fighter. I hope that if they do nerf it, they don't do so too badly, and let me count as a fighter for the purposes of combat feats.

That said, we do have a Wizard, so we have full casting on one player. The potential lack of a full caster could hurt at higher levels, even if your combat prowess can almost keep up with a fighter. Reliance on first round buffs for cleric is only an issue if you're constantly surprised. If you have a moment, you can easily cast a buff before getting into combat, allowing you to wade straight into combat without having to wait a round.

As for deity, as far as the Warpriest goes, you could choose Pharasma for the flavor of the AP, thanks to Sacred Weapon working with any weapon you have Weapon Focus in, not just the deity's favored weapon. Cleric is a bit trickier, but don't forget that the new Ancient Osirion gods are out, and they could be a very flavorful choice for the setting. Plus they have a nice favored weapon selection among them.

[Gargs454]

Well, if you are looking for a decent melee divine caster, there's always the Inquisitor. Obviously you don't get the casting ability of the cleric, but you do get to do a nice combo of fighting and casting. As for what deity to choose, I always say go with something that you will find enjoyable. Obviously favored weapon is a consideration, but in my experience after the first level or two, you can make most any deity work fairly well.

If you are preferring to stick with cleric, you can always focus on buffing yourself to make for a better combatant -- realizing that you can always swap out your buff spells for heals in a jam. You'll also be able to potentially make wands/scrolls for help in the buffing or healing department.

As for the concern about possibly not having a full caster, that is certainly something to consider, but I also think it is something that the entire party needs to consider rather than relying on one person to take care of it for them. By this, I mean that maybe your party ends up spending more money than some on CLW wands, potions, scrolls for buffs, etc. In the end, I always feel its more important to enjoy your character than to simply play "what's needed".

[Korthis]

Oracles make very good battle casters with full casting ability. Depending on mystery chosen you could have a variety of weapon's at your disposal and if you wanted to go elf (or half elf if gm allows)-> ancient lorekeeper you could have some arcane spells as well. Although I don't know anything about Mummy's mask so...

[RainyDayNinja]

It looks like you already have 2.5/3 melee characters signed up. Why do you need another?

I hear archer Inquisitors are quite the thing, anyway.

[Phntm888]

RainyDayNinja has a good point, an archer Inquisitor would not be a bad addition to the party.

[Vendle]

I have been playing an Inquisitor lately and it is a terrific class. My melee ability is always up to the task and 6+ skills helps with utility and to make your character more diverse. Speaking of utility, the Inquisitor spell list includes Shield Other and Invisibility, a great combination if you have to fall back on a wand of CLW.

[Conundrum]

Inquisitors are BADASS.

[Deadmanwalking]

In terms of weapons (for either Inquisitor or Cleric)...have you considered racial options? Half Orcs get Greataxes and Falchions (both solid) and with the right racial trait choices and Fate's Favored (which combines beautifully with Divine Favor) can wind up with Endurance, +2 to all saves, and either Darkvision or an extra skill point per level on top of their weapon choices.

[Imbicatus]

Warpriest makes the Dagger more attractive. The River Rat trait combined with sacred weapon damage means the dagger is doing as much average damage as a longsword at level one, and River Rat is thematic if you grew up on the banks of the Nile er, Sphinx river.

[Corvino]

Given the fairly aggressive melee frontline you already have in the party, you could use a longspear as part of either a Cleric or Oracle's normal weapon proficiency list. A "Reach Cleric" or similar Oracle could provide a nice mix of casting and melee, while not missing out on top-end spellcasting if you continue that far.

[nate lange]

what about a half-elven haunted flame oracle?

- ancestral arms lets you start with any 1 martial or exotic weapon.
- haunted and flame gives you access to some of the casting that you'd be missing if there's no full arcane.
- paragon surge for all the other arcane casting.
- favored class bonus lessens difficulty of balancing spell selection.

[wraithstrike]

I would say cleric if the other guy does not play a full divine caster. Otherwise try the warpriest out.

[Jiggy]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

It looks like you already have 2.5/3 melee characters signed up. Why do you need another?

Honestly, I was counting the bard as like .75 of a melee PC and the rogue as .5 of a melee PC. So we have, like, 2.25 melee PCs. I'd be adding probably .75 myself. Still too much?

Maybe I'm just reacting to the prior TPK in which our party had exactly one PC capable of any repeatable damage output.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

In terms of weapons (for either Inquisitor or Cleric)...have you considered racial options?

Couple of things:

One, I kind of have this aversion to two-handed weapons, since you can't use them if you're being grappled or otherwise need to fight one-handed. I prefer using a one-handed weapon in two hands. All the same damage bonuses as a two-hander, trading only the base die size for the added versatility.

Two, I've got a strong inclination to play a dual-talented human so I can get +2 STR/WIS (without the -2 CHA that comes with oreads or oni-spawn tieflings).

[Corvino]

If you have a very strong need for a one-handed weapon then consider wearing a pair of spiked gauntlets. You can cast and wield another weapon while wearing them and still have a melee weapon if you get disarmed.

Given the current makeup of the party maybe you need to coordinate with the other undecided player. At least one of you should probably take a full-progression caster. Cleric is never a bad choice given the ability to get full casting and still melee like a boss when needed.

[Deadmanwalking]

Jiggy wrote:

Couple of things:

One, I kind of have this aversion to two-handed weapons, since you can't use them if you're being grappled or otherwise need to fight one-handed. I prefer using a one-handed weapon in two hands. All the same damage bonuses as a two-hander, trading only the base die size for the added versatility.

Flail and longsword proficiency are also Half-Orc racial options with alternate racial traits.

Jiggy wrote:

Two, I've got a strong inclination to play a dual-talented human so I can get +2 STR/WIS (without the -2 CHA that comes with oreads or oni-spawn tieflings).

This is a solid argument against the idea, though.

Alternately, be a follower of Osiris or one of the other Ancient Osiriani/Egyptian Gods. Any would be on-theme and many have good weapon choices. Osiris is LG, has the flail and the Repose domain, and considering his portfolio, almost any GM would let you grab Souls with him.

[Jiggy]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Alternately, be a follower of Osiris or one of the other Ancient Osiriani/Egyptian Gods. Any would be on-theme and many have good weapon choices. Osiris is LG, has the flail and the Repose domain, and considering his portfolio, almost any GM would let you grab Souls with him.

I totally forgot that those were in a blog post! Here I've been waiting until I could get home to my Gmail where my GM sent the (horribly-formatted, because email) list to all the players; I could've been perusing at any point! D'oh!

*scans list of weapons*

Oh hey, I've never done an axe before, and Sekhmet has some half-decent domains. Neat!

Thanks for the link/reminder!

[Deadmanwalking]

Jiggy wrote:

I totally forgot that those were in a blog post! Here I've been waiting until I could get home to my Gmail where my GM sent the (horribly-formatted, because email) list to all the players; I could've been perusing at any point! D'oh!

*scans list of weapons*

Oh hey, I've never done an axe before, and Sekhmet has some half-decent domains. Neat!

Thanks for the link/reminder!

You're very welcome. Always happy to be of assistance. :)

[Jiggy]

Update:

The undecided player has settled on playing a clone of the paladin that died in the original TPK.

That means that currently, there are no full casters and everyone's in melee.

Screw that! There are only 8 squares around a base, and four of them are spoken for. Might be time to get some Mystic Theurge up in here!

[Corvino]

Interesting. An early-entry Mystic Theurge using Wizard 3/Cleric with Trickery domain 1/Mystic Theurge X gains a hell of a lot of spells and still gets access to arcane spells at the same level as a Sorcerer...

[Deadmanwalking]

Corvino wrote:

Interesting. An early-entry Mystic Theurge using Wizard 3/Cleric with Trickery domain 1/Mystic Theurge X gains a hell of a lot of spells and still gets access to arcane spells at the same level as a Sorcerer...

Yep. This looks to be a solid build, really. Of the Egyptian Pantheon, Khepri and Bastet appear to have Trickery on their Domain list...

[Jiggy]

I should probably double-check with my GM, though; I know some folks feel strongly against early entry.

[Gargs454]

Aye, always good to check with the GM, but frankly, my personal opinion (as a person who is usually GM), it really shouldn't be much of a problem -- particularly since you're gonna be the only full caster anyway and will be trying to cover multiple roles. Ultimately the MT gives up a bit of power in exchange for versatility.

[ShadowcatX]

Or you could go witch, they're a semi-hybrid caster. It would work especially well since the bard should be able to handle buffing with his spells letting you control and debuff with yours. Samsuran to get a couple spells you think might be helpful throughout the A.P. would even make it better, but c'est la vie.

[Jiggy]

Samsarans aren't open.

But even if MT doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world if I have to merely play a casting-focused cleric. Especially if I pick domains with typically arcane spell options, we could probably do just fine.

[andreww]

If you want to go down the MT route with Cleric primary I would strongly consider using Empyreal Sorcerer for the arcane side to allow you to stack up on wisdom for both.

[Jiggy]

I probably wouldn't make cleric primary. At the moment I'm thinking a vanilla tiefling, stats 8/12/12/18/16/8, going cleric1/wiz2/MTX.

[nate lange]

wouldn't a vanilla tiefling need at least 9 cha (since they get +2 wis/cha)? and their SLA is 3rd level so they don't qualify for early entry...

also, it really is in your best interest to only have 1 caster stat... cleric/empyreal sorc or sorc/wood oracle (with Bend the Grain revelation) can both do that?

[Jiggy]

nate lange wrote:

wouldn't a vanilla tiefling need at least 9 cha (since they get +2 wis/cha)? and their SLA is 3rd level so they don't qualify for early entry...

You're thinking of aasimar.

Quote:

also, it really is in your best interest to only have 1 caster stat... cleric/empyreal sorc or sorc/wood oracle (with Bend the Grain revelation) can both do that?

I'm more interested in the faster spell level progression, I think. Besides, I'm not too worried about my cleric save DCs if I'm also doing arcane casting. My vision of an MT is mostly as support, especially on the cleric side of things.

At least, that's my current thought. Could change, potentially making single-stat casting more important. :)

[andreww]

You could go down the summoning route. With a cleric level you qualify for sacred summons which applies to any summon monster spell you cast, not just cleric ones.

[Jiggy]

andreww wrote:

You could go down the summoning route. With a cleric level you qualify for sacred summons which applies to any summon monster spell you cast, not just cleric ones.

Yeah, but bookkeeping. ;)

[andreww]

You are playing a wizard/cleric, bookkeeping is going to be a thing...:)

[Jiggy]

Hence why adding even more sounds unappealing. ;D

[London Duke]

You could always go druid for full casting and melee prowess.

[nate lange]

wow... i didn't even copy and paste... i typed out "vanilla tiefling" and the entire time in my mind we were totally talking about aasimar...

i might need more sleep.

[Jiggy]

Aaaaand I'm back to this one. Barbarian guy had to drop from the group due to scheduling conflicts, and bard guy decided to switch to a sorcerer. So that means we have a paladin, a rogue, a sorcerer, and me. Thus, I'm back to making a fighty cleric.

Here's what I'm looking at right now:

Human (dual-talented) cleric of Sekhmet

STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 16 (14+2)
CHA 08

Domains: Fire, Healing
Traits: Devotee of the Old Gods, Fate's Favored

Fights with a battleaxe, two-handing it unless he needs a hand for something else.

Trying to pick his first feat. I've thought about Toughness or Weapon Focus. Thoughts?