Of Titan Maulers and Greatswords.

[Sub_Zero]

James Risner wrote:

Remy Balster wrote:

A character with Thunder and Fang can use a Large Earthbreaker in two hands.

Sigh

No.
You.
Can't.

Please take this to a separate thread.

Yes.

You.
Can.

Please take this to a separate thread.

:P

[Major_Blackhart]

So, here's a question then: What's the best use of Jotungrip that someone has come up with?
Go from Titan Mauler to some sort of fighter? Another class?

[thaX]

Sub_Zero wrote:

James Risner wrote:

Remy Balster wrote:

A character with Thunder and Fang can use a Large Earthbreaker in two hands.

Sigh

No.
You.
Can't.

Please take this to a separate thread.

Yes.

You.
Can.

Please take this to a separate thread.

:P

We had a separate thread. It got locked when I started getting called a green regenerating thing.

[Umbranus]

Major_Blackhart wrote:

So, here's a question then: What's the best use of Jotungrip that someone has come up with?

Go from Titan Mauler to some sort of fighter? Another class?

Not sure about best but I think a small pc (can use the first level ability more often) with a reach weapon in his main hand and a madu in his offhand. For class go titan mauler 2 then lore warden.

What you get is a lightly armored guy wielding a reach weapon who can turtle up via combat expertise with little penalties. More so if he mixes in the threatening defender trait.
As long as the enemy is at range you attack with the reach weapon, but you still threaten up close with the madu.

Edit: For race I'd suggest a small aasimar.

[James Risner]

Sub_Zero wrote:

Please take this to a separate thread.

You are the one being disruptive posting in a thread an unrelated rules argument.

Not me.

[Kazaan]

Major_Blackhart wrote:

So, here's a question then: What's the best use of Jotungrip that someone has come up with?

Go from Titan Mauler to some sort of fighter? Another class?

It can work well for wielding a 2-h weapon (properly sized) along with a Shield. This is especially useful for Reach weapons as the standard is for them to be 2-h (barring the whip). Jotungrip would allow you to wield a Reach weapon like a Longspear along with a light or heavy shield. Another benefit is that, even when grappled or otherwise having one hand occupied, you'd be able to use your weapon. Lets say you have a greatsword and take a hand off it in order to do something that requires a spare hand. Normally, you wouldn't threaten with your sword now. But with Jotungrip, you would. Lets say you want to pick up the McGuffin from the magic pedestal and you need to hold it for some reason; you can still attack and threaten with your 2-h weapon by wielding it one-handed. It's much more of a situational benefit as, if you build around wielding a weapon in one hand, it's typically better to just use a one-handed weapon so you don't tank the -2 penalty. Using a Reach weapon one-handed is really the only "strategy" I can think of for Jotungrip as all other strategic applications seem to be better served by just wielding a 1-h weapon; using a 2-h weapon one-handed is, by and large, a tactical option with limited strategic use.

[Sub_Zero]

James Risner wrote:

Sub_Zero wrote:

Please take this to a separate thread.

You are the one being disruptive posting in a thread an unrelated rules argument.

Not me.

actually, not true at all.

I originally posted to counter something that ThaX stated as fact, which is at the very least highly contested (I think you'd agree on that point at least).

I then went on to post about the titan mauler archetype being broken, and the rules not matching the flavor (which again, I think you'd agree).

Finally, I noticed that you decided to state as fact something on which we obviously disagree, and then after stating your opinion, you decided to tell others to not talk about it. (which is exactly what you did, re-read what you wrote if you disagree).

I found that childish of you, so I mocked it a bit by being childish myself and copying what you said almost verbatim so you could see how silly it looks. The ironic part is that you quote me out of context, and don't seem to realize I only did exactly what you already did.

[Gingerbreadman]

Sub_Zero wrote:

I then went on to post about the titan mauler archetype being broken, and the rules not matching the flavor (which again, I think you'd agree).

I do not think that the archetype is broken in any direction as is. But you are right in that they should edit the fluff to better match the rules.

[Sub_Zero]

Gingerbreadman wrote:

Sub_Zero wrote:

I then went on to post about the titan mauler archetype being broken, and the rules not matching the flavor (which again, I think you'd agree).

I do not think that the archetype is broken in any direction as is. But you are right in that they should edit the fluff to better match the rules.

To clarify, the rules aren't broken, they're actually quite clear. The problem is that the writer specifically wrote the archetype so that they could wield bigger weapons. That was the point. The editors decided they didn't want that to be a thing so that altered the rules text to forbid it, but kept the fluff text that gives the impression that they're capable of wielding giant weapons.

[Chris Lambertz]

A note: please drop the back and forth. If it isn't a response to the original question, then it is off topic and should probably go in another thread. If you have an issue about how other threads were moderated, it does not belong here. Please flag and move on, thanks!

[James Risner]

Sub_Zero wrote:

actually, not true at all.

quote me out of context, and don't seem to realize I only did exactly what you already did.

But we are still talking about a subject that has nothing to do with this subject and will result in a 1,100 post thread if we do talk about it. I'm trying to get all talk on it out of this thread because this thread is about something known. Something the subject of a FAQ. So most of this discussion is "why did they do it" not "how does it work". The subject you are referring is "how does it work".

So can we take "how does it work" regarding Thunder and Fang to their own thread?

[Sub_Zero]

James Risner wrote:

Sub_Zero wrote:

actually, not true at all.

quote me out of context, and don't seem to realize I only did exactly what you already did.

But we are still talking about a subject that has nothing to do with this subject and will result in a 1,100 post thread if we do talk about it. I'm trying to get all talk on it out of this thread because this thread is about something known. Something the subject of a FAQ. So most of this discussion is "why did they do it" not "how does it work". The subject you are referring is "how does it work".

So can we take "how does it work" regarding Thunder and Fang to their own thread?

I agree

[Cascade]

Kazaan wrote:

Major_Blackhart wrote:

So, here's a question then: What's the best use of Jotungrip that someone has come up with?

Go from Titan Mauler to some sort of fighter? Another class?

It can work well for wielding a 2-h weapon (properly sized) along with a Shield. This is especially useful for Reach weapons as the standard is for them to be 2-h (barring the whip). ...

I think the Phalanx fighter would be better with no penalties for that aspect, if a shield is off hand.

Ultimately, the only thing I see is to have variety in reach versus AoO / trip combos.

For that you could take a flying blade in one hand that is reach and would only be used for attacks of opportunity and some other weapon, another reach trip weapon as your primary. You never attack with two at the same time. Any weapon can trip...so you can mitigate some of the minuses.

The penalty just makes it a bad choice all around. Sounds cool but just doesn't deliver.

[thaX]

They are related (Titen Mauler and Thunder and Fang) as the FAQ in question answers the query about the size rules against how the weapon is used differently by a character.

All I have.

[Gingerbreadman]

Sub_Zero wrote:

Gingerbreadman wrote:

Sub_Zero wrote:

I then went on to post about the titan mauler archetype being broken, and the rules not matching the flavor (which again, I think you'd agree).

I do not think that the archetype is broken in any direction as is. But you are right in that they should edit the fluff to better match the rules.

To clarify, the rules aren't broken, they're actually quite clear. The problem is that the writer specifically wrote the archetype so that they could wield bigger weapons. That was the point. The editors decided they didn't want that to be a thing so that altered the rules text to forbid it, but kept the fluff text that gives the impression that they're capable of wielding giant weapons.

Yes, the editors did a good job at shooting down that idea (as they did with every way to use oversized two-handed weapons they were aware of) but it seems they liked the fluff and really: It still applies partly because titan maulers are very much more capable at wielding those oversized weapons that can be wielded.

Now we know that it would have been better to change the fluff along with the rules. But I do not think we will see an errata just for fluff.

[CWheezy]

Only being able to wield huge daggers or whatever makes the archetype more of a disaster, not less.

So you really hope as a titan mauler you face giant rogues or something? What?

[MrSin]

CWheezy wrote:

Only being able to wield huge daggers or whatever makes the archetype more of a disaster, not less.

So you really hope as a titan mauler you face giant rogues or something? What?

Well I mean, maybe they have an epic +1 flaming butter knife somewhere on them I can wield? Quick, loot their kitchen cabinets! With any luck their hiding a magical aklys thingy!