Spoiler for the Reign of Winter Adventure Path!
So our group got to Rapsutin Must Die! last night.
He wants to cast Chain Lightning at the tank itself, theorizing that it will kill everyone inside. That just doesn't seem right to me so I say it wouldn't work like that, it would only do damage to the structure of the tank itself, not all the NPCs inside.
This turns into a huge diversion about what kind of metal the tank is, how much it weighs, what the electrical force of a magic lightning spell actually is, and basically just a bunch of not fun talk.
I know these kinds of things aren't always addressed in the rules because it can really bog things down.
I compromised and said if he fires his lightning directly at one of the machine guns or the turret, he could potentially disable it, but he was still really salty about not being able to take down the entire thing in one shot.
How would you handle this? If a guy is wearing Full Plate armor and somebody casts lightning bolt at him, that's not extra damage or anything, right?
The lightning is magical and doesn't react to metals and water like normal. This you can't shock an entire group of enemies because of a wet floor or metal walkway. Problem solved.
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IRL, if lightning strikes an enclosed vehicle, people inside are fine. Look up "faraday cage" to see why.
Chain Lightning states:
"Targets one primary target, plus one secondary target/level (each of which must be within 30 ft. of the primary target)"
Under Aiming a Spell is states:
"Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target."
Can your caster see any target in the tank? If yes, then the one he saw can be targeted. If no, then no one in the tank can be targeted.
He should have had a druid cast Heat Metal.
Your wizard could have cast Possess Object, Cone of Cold, Cloudkill, or even Haunting Mists.
/cevah
IRL, if lightning strikes an enclosed vehicle, people inside are fine. Look up "faraday cage" to see why.
Pretty much this.
If it does enough damage to break the tank, then it continues on through (meaning, sure, it'd hurt some dudes) but that's doubtful.
IRL, if lightning strikes an enclosed vehicle, people inside are fine. Look up "faraday cage" to see why.
Well, yes and no. Unlike a car, tanks have live rounds which can be ignited. So the lightning won't kill them, the blast from the ignited round might. Crew could be deafened by blast as well. Fry radio. But only exploding ammo will kill you.
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There's a nice middle ground. Let him target the barrel of the tank/ammo storage/whatever (I'm not exactly a tank specialist but I believe the old WWI style tanks had people loading them directly into the barrel), and make an attack roll (much like trying to target a Fireball through a small space).
Have the ammo take damage, if it's enough to destroy it, the ammo explodes, dealing further damage to the tank and inhabitants (something like 4d6 fire/2d6 untyped, much like a more powerful Grenade in the rules). Any ammo left in the tank gets a Ref save to halve the damage as well, and any of THOSE that take enough damage to be destroyed explode as well.
Possible chain reaction, but requires a bit more work than "I lightning bolt, you die".
All complete houseruling, of course, but could be quite fun.
IRL, if lightning strikes an enclosed vehicle, people inside are fine. Look up "faraday cage" to see why.Well, yes and no. Unlike a car, tanks have live rounds which can be ignited. So the lightning won't kill them, the blast from the ignited round might. Crew could be deafened by blast as well. Fry radio. But only exploding ammo will kill you.
from personal experience as a tanker in the U.S. Army i will tell you right now that 1) the rounds in the tank are shielded against lightning bolts specifically, plus just about anything else that might make them explode, and 2) just about everything electronic/mechanical in a tank is grounded to the hull, meaning that the armor its self acts as one giant lightning rod and channels the energy strait through itself to the track which has rubber pads and metal cooling rods and is JUST LIKE a car. the faraday cage in a tank is better then that of a normal car.
these concepts have been around since the world wars and the very first tanks, so its not like only "newer" tanks would be shielded this way. they've all been resistant to lightning since the get go because they are MAGNETS for lightning strikes.
honestly, i would argue that not only does chain lightning not harm the crew of the tank in the OPs situation, it doesn't even hurt the tank its self. that would be like using the spell on a literal lightning rod....it would just channel the energy into the ground and dissipate it...
I believe Shimesen qualifies on an authority on the matter and answered the question perfectly. It does no damage to anything
I believe Shimesen qualifies on an authority on the matter and answered the question perfectly. It does no damage to anything
It's magic. Real-world physics don't apply here. You can stand an inch from the outer edge of a fireball and feel no heat.
For what it's worth, JJ advises against such rules modifications because they tend to snowball into unmanageable messes when you realize that you'll have to start writing new rules for every energy type in every non-standard environment.
I'm not familiar with the specific rules for the target in question, but normally being inside a vehicle doesn't protect you from chain lightning cast upon the vehicle. However, if the caster does not have line of sight to the creatures inside, they can't be selected as secondary targets, so they would not take any damage.
Just use the existing rules. The lightning bokt hits the tank. If it does enough damage the bolt keeps going. Rl physics have no bearing on magic.
Unless there is a gap larger than 1ft x 1ft (which on a tank with its hatch closed is a no) no one inside is targetable.
Lightning Elementals have specific rules when dealing with metallic items. Out of them, there aren't.
I'm not familiar with the specific rules for the target in question, but normally being inside a vehicle doesn't protect you from chain lightning cast upon the vehicle. However, if the caster does not have line of sight to the creatures inside, they can't be selected as secondary targets, so they would not take any damage.
I put up the rules just over a week ago. :-)
If he can see the occupants, he can target them. If he cannot, then they are safe.
/cevah
I'm not familiar with the specific rules for the target in question, but normally being inside a vehicle doesn't protect you from chain lightning cast upon the vehicle. However, if the caster does not have line of sight to the creatures inside, they can't be selected as secondary targets, so they would not take any damage.I put up the rules just over a week ago. :-)
If he can see the occupants, he can target them. If he cannot, then they are safe.
/cevah
I'm familiar with the rules for the spell and for targeting in general. What I meant was that I'm not familiar with the specific target to which the OP is referring and do not want to try and type spoiler markup on my phone in order to ask for details. : )
