Does improved grapple apply to a natural weapon with the "grab" ability?

[Oort]

I've been looking at the Feral Gnasher archetype for goblin barbarians, which grants a bite attack with the grab ability. Because improved grapple requires unarmed strike, does that mean that the +2 applies to grapples that don't use unarmed strike? Is it necessary to take "feral combat training" in this instance?

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Those requirements are just for obtaining and using the feat. In no way do they confirm what it would or wouldn't work with.

Improved Grapple would apply to any grapple attempt made. I guess the only thing someone could argue is that you are using Grab and not Grapple, even though Grab utilizes Grapple. That seems silly to me, and I hope that argument never occurs.

[Andrew Harasty]

The Grab ability allows the creature to attempt to start a grapple as a free action. Therefore, Improved Grapple will add +2 to the CMB check.

Now you need to have Improved Unarmed Strike feat to get Improved Grapple feat, but you don't need to use unarmed attacks to initiate the grapple.

[Hendelbolaf]

As said already, yes, the bonus from Improved Grapple would apply to any Grapple checks made using the Grab ability.

[Xuttah]

Why not just take Ability Focus (Grab)?

[Hendelbolaf]

Ability Focus only applies a +2 bonus to the DC for a saving throw so it would not apply here.

[Orfamay Quest]

Xuttah wrote:

Why not just take Ability Focus (Grab)?

You might want to take both. (Although as pointed out, it's at best questionable whether Ability Focus would apply.)

[Orfamay Quest]

Oort wrote:

Because improved grapple requires unarmed strike, does that mean that the +2 applies to grapples that don't use unarmed strike?

Erm,...grapples don't use unarmed strike.

Otherwise that's a cheap way to achieve immunity to grapple, just hold a weapon in each hand.

[Hendelbolaf]

I think he means that the Improved Grapple feat has a prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike. The +2 from Improved Grapple applies to all CMB checks for a grapple.

[Orfamay Quest]

Hendelbolaf wrote:

I think he means that the Improved Grapple feat has a prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike.

Yes. But as I pointed out -- evidently unsuccessfully -- this doesn't mean you have to be unarmed to grapple.

[Hendelbolaf]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

Hendelbolaf wrote:

I think he means that the Improved Grapple feat has a prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike.

Yes. But as I pointed out -- evidently unsuccessfully -- this doesn't mean you have to be unarmed to grapple.

Oh no, I understood what you meant and you are 100% correct!