Alrighty, here's the situation. DM doesn't exactly give anyone money for magic items (so . . . basically no loot drops), and what few magic items we DO have we've had for the longest time. There are a few houserules in effect, but nothing too major besides him allowing my Kobold Cleric to multiclass in Dragon Disciple and count spell-scaling from it in Cleric, and artificially inflating the saving rolls of monsters (so good old 'save or suck' is out of the question).
Here's how the party is decked out:
First is a Pally, with a Vorpal weapon, +2 magic armor, and a Holy G*!-d%&n Avenger, robbed from our second Pally (don't ask . . .) Has a Cleric follower who's been hounding my ass to basically act like the party's heal-gimp since jump.
The second is also a Pally, with an emphasis on healing and skills/diplomacy. This character was clearly built more for role-play and less for crunch. He originally had a Holy Avenger, before he made a big mistake involving a CE NPC. A grappler, for the most part.
Third is a Ranger. Has a super-bow that basically lets him do +infinite damage to CE creatures that are undead.
Fourth is who our party decided was Tank, the Inquisitor. He's got a super-mask from the DM that basically gives him +10 AC, stackable. Cool dude, dickish character.
Fifth, sixth and seventh are a Sorcerer, Sorcerer, and monk. None are really important.
And Eighth is me. Kobold Cleric. No longer has a magic item after the DM let me burn it to Rez our second Pally (yes, I didn't have the 5k to get some crushed diamond). Now only has mundane armor, weapons, and feats to aid him, as well as his spells
The problem? We're all level 13/14, and besides me, nobody has 30+ AC, including our 'tank'. I'm currently using a breastplate, tower shield, dodge, Dex, nat armor stuff, and a couple of other things/feats, and have a grand total of 31 AC. After using my two 'prepping for the day' spells, that increases to 37. My TAC is in a similar boat; two spells and it's at about 28. My saves are decent, but don't particularly matter when a super-monster is nomming on my spleen (one monster we had to deal with recently was some sort of homebrew tentacle thing that could make two standard actions in a single turn, could use 6 tentacles as at will attacks to things within 10 feet, could fly, was invulnerable to all sorts of damage save for a certain weapon, and could cast Suffocation at 12CL).
And while I realize that some people are saying 'don't get into an arms race with the DM', the fact is that I've basically been driven into a corner and now actively have to cheese the system to survive.
So . . . what can I do to improve my AC? And, perhaps less importantly, how can I persuade my party that I'm more than capable of being tank, despite being a Kobold that weighs 27lbs, soaking wet?
This sounds like a tough game with a pretty tough GM. One option might be going the crafting route, make your own amulet of natural armor, belts of dexterity, belts of con for improved AC and more health, this might not be a cheap option.
Option 2 is to go the concealment route, blur, mirror image, greater invisibility, darkness, obscuring fog, silent image, adjuring step, and any other spell/wands that grant some sort of concealment penalty to hit (that way their low AC is good 20-50% of the time regardless).
Option 3 is summons. Fill the area with minions to help absorb blows and to provide cover if they are large. Everyone should get a bonus meat shield if there is time before a fight to prepare. Improved UMD familiars can move about casting for the party to save action economy, when they are done they can also grab some cure wands and keep your "tanks" alive a little longer.
Throw in some greater infernal healing spells, AC or ability ioun stones (doesn't sound like these are an option though), and maybe some golems to fight on everyone's behalf =P
Other more rudimentary ideas are the AC feats. Dodge of course is the cut and dry vanilla feat for this. Depending on what race you are, there are other feats that add to your ac. I think it's Iron hide that give a +1 bonus to natural armor for dwarves.
At some point the gm will have to realize that any normal pc will stop working for the NPC or going on these missions if the gold payout isn't there. It might be understandable that a small town will not have big magic items. But a 7th lvl pc is not going to do missions for someone if it keeps getting low balled on pay/gear to sell. Just my opinion.
@ GuardianLord
Been using Summons more recently, but don't have the cash to make items, unfortunately. The Summon route is a bit negated by the fact that most of the time, we rarely get the jump on anything; between 8 people rolling for stealth, there's a 2/5 chance SOMEONE is going to roll a nat 1 (any yes, there have been recommendations that not everyone go to and jump the targets all at once; they haven't gone well). I'm also the follower of a LG deity, unfortunately, so Infernal healing is out of the question. Concealment, though, might be workable, but the DM has started pitting us against creatures that have blind-sight and such, as well as creatures that use cone attacks and AOEs; not sure how that interacts with Concealment style buffs off the top of my head, in all honesty.
@Ulfen Death Squad
The party is part of a military, and we're less adventurers than unpaid grunts. We're basically fighting the apocalypse for minimum wage.
As for feats, I've got Tower Shield proficiency, Shield Focus, Toughness, Dodge, and Improved Nat Armor(+1) for defensive styled ones, and my Kobold's HP is about 142, with a Nat armor of 6. I can continue taking Improved Nat armor to increase my nat armor bonus more and more, but eventually +1 armor every 2 levels is going to plateau in effectiveness (though, if I don't take it any further, Nat armor will still get to roughly +8 when Dragon bloodline stuff concludes in giving me armor). I've got a few ranks in acrobatics so I can get +6 for total defense actions, but those sorts of things are only effective up to a point (movement is 20 feet due to all the armor, for example, but I'll be able to fly soon enough and thusly be able to move 60 feet).
This stuff is useful, though; please, tell me if you have any more ideas.
I have a hard time seeing how level 13-14 characters can reasonably be "unpaid grunts". Those are the levels casters can literally create planes of existence. If your COs are badass enough to deny you a proper paycheck, they should be able to fight the war themselves. And if the massive amounts of training and combat experience required to get to that level still warrants you the rank of "expendable and doesn't deserve basic gear", your characters might as well give up and die now because you're going to be eaten by Cthulhu or whatever anyway while the Level 20/Mythic 10 GMPCs or whatever handle the real fights.
Maybe your GM has just been snickering to himself, just waiting for you (or your characters, anyway) to realize you deserve a raise.
Try pushing the matter IC next session, see what happens.
There may be more you can do to optimize your buff spells.
It sounds like you already use Extended Magic Vestment (+3 enhancement for your 13th level Cleric) on both armor and shield, but do you do it a way that leaves those spell slots available on adventuring days? Always leave two 3rd level spell slots "Open" on your daily default spell list. Each night, just before you sleep, replace your two Open slots with Magic Vestments, then immediately cast those Extended. Duration is 26+ hours, so it's always on. Any given day you can use those two open spell slots for something else and still have +3 armor and +3 shield for the day.
Are you counting your +4 Deflection from Shield of Faith? Cast extended it's 26+ minutes. Get a few Pearls of Power and keep it going most of the day. You could also Quicken Shield of Faith, so you have it when you need it. Some allies may have a deflection bonus, but some could probably benefit mightily.
Can any of the Sorcerers get Barkskin? Your Ranger can. That's a +4 AC bonus on whomever needs it. Extend it for duration of 4+ hours.
Since you are in a gear-poor environment, but are quite high level, you and your martial allies could make great use of Greater Magic Weapon. You probably already do.
A DX12 Kobald Cleric wearing Full Plate armor and carrying a Tower Shield has a base AC of 25. The two ongoing +3 AC Magic Vestment spells (backed up by two open 3rd level spell slots) on armor and shield provide AC 31. Barkskin from the Ranger gets you to AC 35. Shield of Faith takes you to AC 39. Are you already doing those things?
Rynjin wrote: I have a hard time seeing how level 13-14 characters can reasonably be "unpaid grunts". Those are the levels casters can literally create planes of existence. If your COs are badass enough to deny you a proper paycheck, they should be able to fight the war themselves. Funny you should mention the whole 'create planes of existence' bit . . . in a particularly bad situation that nearly ended in a TPK, I basically ending up punting our non-casting boss-foe of the session into the plane of Acid.
To get away from the Counter-monkeying, though . . . you have a point there; we probably should raise the issue, in all honesty. There are WITCHES of CR 8 that have STICKS that deal more damage due to magic buffs than some of our stuff. . .
Rynjin wrote: Maybe your GM has just been snickering to himself, just waiting for you (or your characters, anyway) to realize you deserve a raise.
Try pushing the matter IC next session, see what happens.
I'll give that a whirl and see what happens. Thanks!
Magda Luckbender wrote: Are you already doing those things? Ahahaha . . . I use pretty much all of those spells all the time (they really are the best for most situations), so, yeah, I am. I can have an AC of 50 for about 13 minutes, 53 for 13 rounds, without spell extension. But everyone is basically kit out to be the most ultimate of ultimate glass-cannons, and now is the part in the game where those start to shatter if they aren't thought out well . . .
And I don't have Platemail, just a breastplate, currently; I'd love to get some Mithral Platemail, in all honesty, as I'm starting to get close to my carry capacity.
And I can't afford the Pearls of Power, sadly. Might be, after we talk to him, but until then, I'm assuming the worst.
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How are you set for non-AC defense? Do you have Divine Interference to block most critical hits against the party? Any re-rolls for important saving throws? Got anything to turn aside sneak attacks and crits? Does one of the front-liners wield a reach weapon whose threat zone you can shelter inside (without blocking AoOs, due to size) ? Got DR?
Magda Luckbender wrote: How are you set for non-AC defense? Do you have Divine Interference to block most critical hits against the party? Any re-rolls for important saving throws? Got anything to turn aside sneak attacks and crits? Does one of the front-liners wield a reach weapon whose threat zone you can shelter inside (without blocking AoOs, due to size) ? Got DR? THAT is a nifty feat I am going to pick up, ASAP.
If you mean saving throw stuff, I'm tolerable (not really well off, but tolerable), due to ward-shield, spell immunity, and personally applied SR. I can make someone have to succeed twice just to hit me, and then I can make my save at +5 reflex for AOEs.
I don't think there are any spells that Clerics can apply to allow rerolls, and my saving throws are 11 for fort, 8 for reflex, and 15 for Will. These are all pre-bonus, and haven't had any magical increasing. I get an additional +1 for all spell instigated saves.
I have blind-sense, which lets me know if something is sneaking up on me for most situations, but nothing that specifically turns aside sneak attacks and crits. Thankfully, the DM hasn't thrown Rogues or other sneak attack creatures at us in a very long time.
None of the 'Front-liners' really have longer distance weapons, save for the Ranger, who has a bow.
No DR, sadly. :(
Ooh, you have Blind-sense? You should get blind fighting too. Then cast lots of Pyrotechnics spells. By making smoke, you make everyone blind. Everyone will have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment and will have to make Perception checks DC 20 to even find each other. Exept for you, of course. You'll still have a miss chance, but Blind Fighting knocks it down to 25%.
If everyone else in your party can work out some kind work-while-blind method, then you can apply this tactic all the time. Being able to inflict total concealment on all your sighted enemies will count for a whole lot of AC. Half orcs have access to a feat called Keen Scent. Dwarves can get Tremorsense at the cost of 2 feats. Catfolk can have scent. There are spells that grant the Scent ability such as Alter Self. Echolocation is a higher level spell that solves all the problems at once. You don't need Scent, Blindsense, or Tremorsense if only you have a wicked high Perception score. Finding your opponent while Blind or through Total Concealment requires a DC 20 Perception check or DC = Stealth check +20. There are a lot of ways of achieving this effect. Seeking is a +1 ranged weapon enchantment that eliminates miss chances. True Sight eliminates miss chances, too.
My favorite way of making everyone blind is via an Eversmoking Bottle. Your whole party needs only 1. They cost 5400gp. Can every party member scrape up 700gp to chip in for an Eversmoking Bottle?
I am a fan of Luckbender's idea of layers of defense. Get a high AC. Get a concealment miss chance. Get DR.
Your a goblin, right? You should get the feat Roll with It. Roll with it essentially gives you a saving throw (an acrobatics check) vs. melee damage. Anyway, it's very funny.
How do you feel about taking "arms race with the DM" in a different direction? How high are your characters' Appraise scores? In every situation that is tactically secure, take every single item of conceivable value that is not nailed down, and get a crowbar to take the ones that are nailed down. Strip every room and corpse of valuables. Open every beast's stomach.
Explain to the paladins that your party needs treasure to capitalize so you can stop the apocalypse, then use them to distribute the wealth evenly.
If the DM complains about the action being interrupted by the party sterilizing every room and battlefield of valuables. Tell him why you're doing it, and maybe he'll send more treasure your way to make you stop. There is a good chance that that is what he's been expecting you to do all along, and in your search for bank vaults filled with piles of gold, you've been passing over kitchens with spice racks filled with saffron or office paperwork describing real estate transactions worth thousands of gold pieces.
If you make liberal application of the Dirty Trick feat, you can make you opponents Blind (deaf, or anosmic) that way.
How do you feel about Shield Other? One tactic I always wanted to try was to combine Shield Other with a Tumor Familiar. You work out a method to make the familiar be the one who casts Shield Other, and then you only take half the damage, and the familiar gets Fast Healing 5.
Maybe you could be the familiar for the party, casting Infernal Healing on yourself and Shield Other on others?
I can't help you, in games I play in this kind of abuse from NPCs is not tolerated. If the players get beyond about level 9 without enough money the players basically revolt and ignore the slave driving quest givers and go do our own heroics. Like deciding to break into the evil kingdoms treasury, or to simply rob the magic item shop if the PCs aren't good. As a GM I always try to avoid having the players under my thumb for too long, it can be good for the story to have a high level GMPC show up to get the plot back on track, but the players hate the loss of control and I hate taking it away as a GM.
Honestly it sounds like you are already tricking out your AC about as high as you can get it.
If your GM will let you keep tacking Improved natural armor and having it stack, I guess keep doing that.
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Alaka-ooze wrote: ...
We're basically fighting the apocalypse for minimum wage.
...
that is an epic quote:)
Get the entire party to take stealth synergy feat. Boom, everyone rolls stealth and the highest roll is used by everyone.
Extended magic circle against evil will net you a healthy +2 deflection bonus to AC if you don't already have one and will last for a bit over 4 hours at your level. Also buffs nearby allies and provides bonuses on saves, which should not be overlooked.
If your priority is AC and you're not really caring about offence then Combat Expertise is worth grabbing.
Entropic shield is a 1st level spell that gives 20% miss chance on ranged attacks for 1 minute per level, certainly worth giving a look.
Hide from undead can give the party the drop on undead foes, one casting should cover the entire group unless you're on an escort mission for a large force.
A prepped Breath of Life spell can bring back the dead, minus the price tag. You'll have to be swift and use all your kobold cunning to get to them in time, but it's cheaper than raising them.
Do you start the day with Hero's Feast? You should, it's the breakfast of champions.
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