Room construction time makes no sense to me.


Advice


Ultimate campaign teaches us that every room has a construction time. If you are willing to increase the amount of labour capital used in the construction of said room, you can speed up the construction.

Why does room construction time stack?

Let's say I want to have a lavatory constructed and that I pay for my capital, rather than participate in the construction myself. Building this lavatory would take 4 days. If a party member of mine then wants to build their own lavatory, they can do so at the same time, and that lavatory will be done in 4 days as well. Meaning that after 4 days, 2 lavatories will have been built. But if -I- want another lavatory built, then the construction time of the 2 rooms will stack, making it take 8 days, instead of 4, despite there being no difference in prize.

Call me crazy, but I imagined that when my fellow party member decided he wanted to build a lavatory, he paid for a seperate construction team to work on his lavatory, the same time my team was working on mine. Why is it then, that I cannot hire 2 construction teams and finish in 4 days, without having to pay double the labour cost to both teams?

-Nearyn


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Construction Union regulations?


Because building the second floor comes after building the first? And because the rules are abstractions and already silly fast?
And you can hire more help and be done faster i think that simulate hvirring every one in the area to work on your house, NOW!
Edit: spelling.


It would make sense to me if I was building a tower, that I cannot construct the second floor, before the first floor can hold it up. But if I'm not it stops making sense just as fast.

The rules are abstractions, I get that, I just don't think that stacking the construction time is a reasonable or elegant solution. It becomes sillier and sillier the more you use it. With every room you add, you add to the workforce, but the increase in man-hours worked worsens the construction speed of the component rooms. It's contrary to every reasonable fiber in my body.

-Nearyn


bump


As a GM, I would probably allow you to work on multiple rooms at once up to the maximum on the capital expenditure per day for your location.


Look, what are you really looking for here? The downtime rules are nonsense. The closer you look at them the less sense they make. Even if they actually worked out you are doing a bunch of work for a system where nothing costs more than a few thousand gold, and thus doesn't matter after the lowest levels anyway.

Complaining about it is like complaining that, during a chase, casting fly helps you use Diplomacy on an Ogre. Yes, it doesn't make any sense. But that is how the subsystem works, and it is one's own fault for thinking they it provide anything more sane than that.


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Because when a workforce builds a building, they build the whole building, not the individual rooms to be slapped together on paper.

The game rules for this were designed under two assumptions:

1. Quickly provide reasonably solid building construction mechanics, building modification is a nice extra.

If I'm building a building consisting of one lavatory, it takes the time it takes to build a single lavatory. If I'm building a building consisting of two lavatories, it takes the time it takes to build two lavatories. Yes, there are efficiencies to gain from having a shared wall, but I'm splitting my workforce (the specialist in medieval indoor plumbing can only be in one place at a time, and he has to do his job before the tile guy can install the permanent floor...)

Joe's Carpentry Guild isn't going to dedicate twice as many people, unless you pay extra. Therefore, the labor requirement is really the same people, doing twice the work, thus double the labor resources.

Technically, I'd say that if you and your friend wanted to build two lavatories onto the same building, it would take double the time, same as if you want to build two lavatories on the same building.

However, if you're building two separate lavatories, on two separate buildings, it may, depending on the labor force available, be possible to build them in tandem.

2. Fit into as little space in the book as possible.

Thus, there are a lot of simplifications, omissions, and "GM, fill in the blank here".

Seriously, these rules were not designed to be in-depth construction simulators. Building twice as much stuff generally takes twice as long, so that's what they represented as best they could in the limited space they had.

They work close enough to reality for my buck, and I work in the construction industry. (No, I wouldn't say they come close to reality, no closer than the combat rules or the rules for carrying capacity. But, I use those happily, too)


@Dorsey: There's an idea.

@Mort: I hoped to make sense of the fact that room construction time stacks. I'd also perhaps hoped for a few alternatives to the present rules, but I did not specify that.

@Billy: That does make more sense to me. If you have to dig out a larger foundation, ensure the stability of the load bearing walls, and finally build one, big, interconnected roof, I guess that it only makes sense that it adds to the time. Without any personal experience with building construction, I'd probably have made it so that you took the construction time of the room that took longest, and added half the time of the others, to represent each room having their own work-team. Then you'd have the option of stacking time as it is now, by only hiring one work-team to do -all- the rooms, but that would cut the cost of labour by 1/4th, or somesuch.

-Nearyn


My best guess would be that the Downtime rules, like many other rules, doesn't take in account how many of each service provider there exists.

For example, if you were looking to recruit a trained hireling in a city, it wouldn't matter (as far as the rules are concerned) if your friend just dropped by and recruited one a bit earlier. In fact (as far as the rules are concerned) it wouldn't matter if a million of your friends each entered the city before you and hired one, you would still have the same chances to find one!

Of course, your GM could easily say that all the available hirelings have already been employed - just like he could claim that your friend would have to wait for his lavatory (since all the local plumbers are currently employed by this 'Nearyn' guy).

The rules are probably written that way to provide decent guidelines on a characters options in a vacuum. Simulating the entire businesses and their impact on the availability of services would certainly get silly very fast! And the price for this streamlining is some anomalies when multiple PC attempt to employ the same services, like your Lavatory example.


Lessah hits the fundamental point on the head.

The rules are written assuming the maximum possible applicability. Thus, they're very general and make more or less sense to different people depending on those persons' individual knowledge base.

If a GM is huge on versamillitude, he'll probably figure out how many work crews are available with sufficient skill at lavatory construction. Then, he'll work out how much work could be done in parallel. From that, he'll work out how many lavatories can be built in what amount of time, regardless of who's paying.

If not, well, the rules in the book do work, if imperfectly, so a GM without the time (or interest in lavatory construction) can just tell you "4 days for one, 8 for two."

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