Deadly Range / Melee


Rules Questions


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I'm sorry if this has already been talked about, but I didn't find it using search. Does Deadly Range apply to melee attacks? All it says is it increases by 10 feet the range a rogue can deal sneak attack damage? Most melee weapons have 5 ft range, but some have reach, and lunge also changes range....

The way it reads I should be able to add 10 feet to my rapier for example...


It increases the range at which you can make a sneak attack. This only applies to ranged weapons. It doesn't explicitly state that because it doesn't need to. Your rapier still only has a five foot reach-- it doesn't magically stretch the blade out an extra 10 feet to make sneak attacks. Lunge and reach specifically deal with reach, not range.


Yet most ninja abilities do in effect magically change things...see in the dark, become invisible, etc


Regardless, Xanzai is right. It increases the maximum range at which you can deal sneak attack damage, which is normally 30 ft. In no way does it say that it increases the reach of your weapons or even the range of ranged weapons.


For example deft palm says you can hide a weapon in plain sight even while being observed...so by rule you could hide a halberd in plain sight....or any weapon..again makes no sense


Range = ranged attacks
Reach = melee attacks

It increases range not reach.


You don't make melee attacks at a range. You make ranged attacks at a range. Reach weapons can hit from further away, but it's still not ranged. Ranged attacks are things like bows, shuriken, etc. The benefit behind that talent is the ability to attack something and get sneak attacks from further than 30 feet away. Regardless of what a ninja can do, that talent does not stretch their arm out to four times its normal length.

Though, thinking about it, it'd be a surprisingly effective tactic. I'd be too busy laughing at the ninja to properly defend myself.


It doesn't say max range, Koly, and when Paizo discusses spells it makes it VERY specific which words are used, again I am not saying it's right, but the wording needs to be added :)


Deft Palm allows you to hide it while it is in plain sight, using Sleight of Hand.

Sleight of Hand wrote:
You can hide a small object (including a light weapon or an easily concealed ranged weapon, such as a dart, sling, or hand crossbow) on your body.

This does not allow you to hide a halberd.


Nice Splendor, I hadn't seen that in the tables before. Thanks


Thanks Xan, I didn't think it should..but as a halfling rogue I was sure hoping :) LOL


Just to be clear, here is the text on Deadly Range:

Deadly Range wrote:
Deadly Range (Ex): A ninja with this ninja trick increases the range at which she can deal sneak attack damage by 10 feet. A ninja can take this trick more than once. Its effects stack.
If you read ninja or rogue class abilities, it says under sneak attack:
Core Rulebook wrote:
Ranged attacks count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Hence, this ability allows you to deal sneak attack damage at a range of up to 40 feet the first time you take it, and each additional selection of the talent adds an addtional 10 feet.

Splendor wrote:

Range = ranged attacks
Reach = melee attacks

It increases range not reach.

It does not increase the range of a weapon. Rather, it increases the range at which you can deal sneak attack damage. Sorry if that was your intent but I believe Fugitmori misinterpreted based on your explanation.

Grand Lodge

If you can make a melee attack at 15 feet, you can do sneak attack damage with it, provided you qualify otherwise. If you don't have 15' reach, this trick doesn't give it to you.

Grand Lodge

Starglim wrote:
If you can make a melee attack at 15 feet, you can do sneak attack damage with it, provided you qualify otherwise. If you don't have 15' reach, this trick doesn't give it to you.

Enlarge Person and a reach weapon, a normal whip, most reach weapons with Lunge.

What is the reach of an enlarged person with a whip?

Grand Lodge

kinevon wrote:
Starglim wrote:
If you can make a melee attack at 15 feet, you can do sneak attack damage with it, provided you qualify otherwise. If you don't have 15' reach, this trick doesn't give it to you.

Enlarge Person and a reach weapon, a normal whip, most reach weapons with Lunge.

What is the reach of an enlarged person with a whip?

What is the reach of a Large (tall) creature with a whip?

edit: Since a whip has the reach quality, it doubles the creature's natural reach, or it has a reach of 15 feet since the specific description says so. Therefore, a creature can choose whichever of these reaches is most beneficial for him. This is a good answer for Large creatures (as discussed previously for a notable example), probably not so desirable for Tiny or smaller instances.

Sczarni

Fugitmori, if you're wielding a reach weapon, such as a Glaive (Halberds aren't reach weapons), and then become large size, and use Lunge, you can Sneak Attack foes up to 25 feet away, given you meet the other requirements for making a Sneak Attack.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

To be clear, you're talking about the Ninja Class Ability Ninja Trick "Deadly Range"

rules wrote:
"Deadly Range (Ex): A ninja with this ninja trick increases the range at which she can deal sneak attack damage by 10 feet. A ninja can take this trick more than once. Its effects stack."

RANGE does not equal REACH. Most melee weapons have a REACH of 5 feet, the RANGE depends on the weapon (some are also throwing weapons, some aren't). Reach weapons have reach, not range (unless they can also be thrown). Lunge increases reach, not range, so it's not a good comparison.

Taking this trick does not increase your melee weapon's reach. It would increase the range at which you could do sneak attack damage with it if you throw it.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

SlimGauge wrote:
RANGE does not equal REACH.

+1

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