Sorry, for duplicate post, i posted this question in advice board and it really should be on this board.
Does the use of the command word to retreive one of the six stored items in the vest trigger the Haunted Oracles "retrieve stored items" curse? "This sturdy vest stays dry and spotless in the worst of conditions. You can secure up to six objects (weighing up to 1 pound each) to the vest by holding then to it and speaking a command word. You can retrieve any of these items as a move action."
I think the question turns on whether "secured" means "stored".
From an FAQ:
Does the haunted curse affect how long it takes to draw a weapon?
No. The curse affects the "retrieve a stored item" action. If you are using the "draw a weapon" action (such as to draw a dagger from a belt sheath), that is a different kind of action and the haunted curse does not affect it.
If you were attempting to retrieve a dagger from your backpack, that would count as a "retrieve a stored item" action and the curse would interfere.
----
Extrapolating, the haunted curse seems to only affect items inside containers that could be shuffled around without anybody noticing. I read the VVest as securing the objects to the outside, so items so secured would not be subject to being misplaced.
That is how i read it as well. Kind of picture a magical Velcro vest that you can affix items to the sticky outside and retrieve them by saying the command word.
|
It uses the same action as normal to retrieve a stored item to get one from the vest. Oracle curses are not supposed to be able to be circumvented short of divine intervention.
The haunted curse should still be in effect, otherwise the entire drawback of the curse could be bypassed with the Vest and a Handy Haversack.
Items on the vest are not stored.
Drawing a weapon is a move action and this isn't affected by the oracle curse. Yes, you are retrieving an item with this vest but its not a stored item, rather a secured item. Arent weapons, like swords, secured in a scabbard?
|
Drawing a weapon is a move action and this isn't affected by the oracle curse. Yes, you are retrieving an item with this vest but its not a stored item, rather a secured item. Arent weapons, like swords, secured in a scabbard?
Once you have a BAB of 1 you can draw a weapon as part of a move. Quick draw let's you do it for free. Switching to your cestus or boulder helmet is free. In practice, drawing a weapon is usually free. NOT always, admittedly. Usually.
It also seems cheesy to let 2k cancel a curse. But most of the curses don't actually negatively effect most characters any way so I guess that really isn't a problem.
True. My oracle has one more scenario before leveling to 2nd lvl and I'm evaluating my build and future progression. Right now I'm dual cursed with haunted primary and legalistic secondary. I choose lunar mystery and bonded animal companion as first revelation. I intend on fighting with my pet (tiger). My concern with haunted is the need to get out potions/wands/etc in combat. It's normally not needed but when you do need access to those items its seems to be at a critical time. Accessing if another primary curse would be a better option.
The FAQ makes it clear to me that it only applies to items inside a container, like a sack or backpack.
The Vest is no different, as far as I can tell, from putting items in a bandolier, in a belt-sheathe, or scabbard; they're out in the open, sticking to the outside of the vest. The main (and as near as I can tell, only) use for the vest is for carrying stuff you'd normally put in a sack or backpack, but need available more quickly.
That's how I saw it as well. Although, having a flask of alchemist fire stuck to my chest may not be in compliance with PFS Safe Work Place restrictions ;)
Beware the OSHA Ogres.
|
|
The FAQ makes it clear to me that it only applies to items inside a container, like a sack or backpack.
The Vest is no different, as far as I can tell, from putting items in a bandolier, in a belt-sheathe, or scabbard; they're out in the open, sticking to the outside of the vest. The main (and as near as I can tell, only) use for the vest is for carrying stuff you'd normally put in a sack or backpack, but need available more quickly.
Actually the FAQs are specific to drawing sheathed weapons and accessing spell components respectively, specifically so that the curse that imposes a limit on retrieving items does not make combat or spell casting unduly harsh.
It specifically mentions getting an item out of a backpack as being subject to the curse, and all but states items out in the open are not.
The FAQ makes it clear to me that it only applies to items inside a container, like a sack or backpack.
The basis for the FAQ is that "draw a weapon" is a different action than "retrieve a stored item". It matters not whether an item is inside a container. You can store items all over your body without using containers or any kind of magic--ask a fisherman--but retrieving them uses the "retrieve a stored item" action just the same, unless it's a weapon.
Whether retrieving an affixed item from the versatile vest counts as the "retrieve a stored item" action is not clear, so ask your GM. I would count it as such, and it would not circumvent the haunted curse as such curses are not intended to be circumvented without the aid of a deity.
Intended doesn't matter in the Rules Forum.
Intended doesn't matter in the Rules Forum.
On what basis do you make this claim? Last I checked, the "Rules Questions" forum wasn't called "Rules As Written Questions Only". Besides that, I've already addressed RAW.
Rules means rules as written. That's kind of the definition of rules.
What's the difference between drawing a weapon from a belt sheath and a potion from a belt sheath?
Here's some more RAW:
"Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item."
The Vest puts them in easy reach. They are not stored items, they are not subject to the curse.
R.A.W.
Rules means rules as written. That's kind of the definition of rules.
What's the difference between drawing a weapon from a belt sheath and a potion from a belt sheath?
The FAQ that says they are different. Drawing a weapon is specified as not affected by the haunted curse. Note that retrieving a dagger, although it is a weapon, from a backpack is treated as retrieving a stored item and is subject to the curse. You could draw your weapon from a sheath without effect but you could not draw a potion from the exact same sheath without effect because only drawing weapons and handling spell components are exempt from the curse.
And since you edited in that last bit while I was composing, I will have to address it on its own by pointing out that the FAQ does not allow for anything stored like a weapon or in a sheath that could hold a weapon or whatever other ways you can imagine to circumvent the very clear ruling. It specifies that weapons and spell components are the only items exempt from the curse which Fomsie already mentioned.
Rules means rules as written. That's kind of the definition of rules.
It's -a- definition of rules. It is not -the- definition of rules. In fact, it's probably the least important of the three major rules definitions used here (RAW, RAI, HR/R0). So it's perfectly reasonable to discuss intent once RAW has been adequately covered. Especially when RAW is unclear.
Furthermore, how does the curse play with a Handy Haversack, where whatever you want is within easy reach? Does that negate the effects of a curse, or should we treat the Oracle as a Portable Hole in this case?