How do you get more than 7 missiles?
Think that means increases the damage dice cap by 5 levels, not 5 damage dice. Thus you scale at 11 and 13, then you're done.
The thread in the link above is rigth intensify spell is not gonna help magic missile at all it us not a damage dice but a number of missiles:(
Think that means increases the damage dice cap by 5 levels, not 5 damage dice. Thus you scale at 11 and 13, then you're done.
Magic Missile doesn't scale at all.
Intensify increase damage dice by 5 levels.
Magic Missile doesn't scale by damage dice. It scales by missiles.
Edit: Ah, I see this has already been discussed. Anywho... you're not going to get a more definitive answer from Paizo. The answer is already pretty clear cut.
|
Think that means increases the damage dice cap by 5 levels, not 5 damage dice. Thus you scale at 11 and 13, then you're done.Magic Missile doesn't scale at all.
Intensify increase damage dice by 5 levels.
Magic Missile doesn't scale by damage dice. It scales by missiles.
Edit: Ah, I see this has already been discussed. Anywho... you're not going to get a more definitive answer from Paizo. The answer is already pretty clear cut.
Except it's not entirely clear cut, hence the debate.
The spell does go up by missile, but each missile is a die of damage.
Personally, I read the feat and spell interaction as continuing the progression for 5 levels, essentially allowing for 2 more missiles. In the added 5 levels from the final missile progression you would gain an additional missile at 11th and 13th levels and that would be that.
I think the feat has an effect on the spell, but not an overwhelming one.
Think that means increases the damage dice cap by 5 levels, not 5 damage dice. Thus you scale at 11 and 13, then you're done.Magic Missile doesn't scale at all.
Intensify increase damage dice by 5 levels.
Magic Missile doesn't scale by damage dice. It scales by missiles.
Edit: Ah, I see this has already been discussed. Anywho... you're not going to get a more definitive answer from Paizo. The answer is already pretty clear cut.
Except it's not entirely clear cut, hence the debate.
The spell does go up by missile, but each missile is a die of damage.
Personally, I read the feat and spell interaction as continuing the progression for 5 levels, essentially allowing for 2 more missiles. In the added 5 levels from the final missile progression you would gain an additional missile at 11th and 13th levels and that would be that.
I think the feat has an effect on the spell, but not an overwhelming one.
Agreed with this. In the same way, Scorching Ray would only get one more Ray out of Intensified.
Also, you're missing Spell Perfection, which doubles all the numberical bonuses from feats. Combine with Varisian Tattoo and Spell Spec for +6 to CL at 15th, and you're hitting 21st CL WITHOUT SPell Pen. It's how you generate monster numbers with Fireball builds.
also, you specifically did the Maximized Empowered combo wrong. Maximize and Empower do not stack, their additional damage is independent of one another.
You did 10d4+10 = 50 Maximized, then added 50% for 75 damage.
Nope. You maximize 10d4+10 for 50, right enough, but you add 50% of 10d4+10, which is 35 on average, for +17.5. So you'd average 67.5.
If your DM makes a house rule that they do stack, you're fine. But the example in the book specifically lays out how to do the math here, same as in 3.5. They got afraid of people tossing out Max Empowered stuff for big damage, and so applied a marginal nerf to them.
==Aelryinth
|
Also does anyone have gear/other advice for how to get rid of the pesky shield problem?
I could use some tips on this too as I plan on doing basically the same thing you're doing, but as a sorcerer. To add to the problem, there is not only Shield, but Shock Shield. So if you're using this from Dispel Magic: "You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way..." and you name Shield, but not Shock Shield, then you've possibly just wasted a spell.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/maximize-spell-metamagic---fi nal
Basically, it's right there in the Maximize Spell feat text.
==Aelryinth
|
|
Close your eyes Matt as this is not equal or better. :) (And I'm still messing with it.)
Halfling Umbral Shadow Sorcerer
Str 5, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 7, Cha 20 (at level 1)
Magical Lineage (MM)
Highlander (+1 or +2 to Stealth)
1st- Piercing Spell
3rd- Spontaneous Metafocus (MM)
5th- Empower Spell
7th- Spell Penetration, Skill Focus - Stealth
9th: Quicken Spell
11: Intensified Spell
13: Greater Spell Penetration, Stealthy
15: Spell Perfection (MM)
17: Maximize Spell
So the INT mod is +0 so I can put ranks in Stealth, Spellcraft, and K-Arcana (with favored class bonus).
The DEX is high primarily for Stealth.
The idea for the character is from this thread. Basically, the plan is to capitalize on the Shadow Well ability, beginning at level 9, or hopefully sooner at level 5 with Robes of Arcane Heritage. Then the normal protocol would be to fire MM (or Dispel Magic) as standard action, then hide and move. One of the keys is to use the spell Protective Penumbra so that right before / during combat I am always "within 10 feet of a shadow other than your own".
Edit: Halflings, in addition to the +4 to Stealth for being small, can take Swift as Shadows so that they can "reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5". So yeah, the build above is as much about doing Stealthy stuff as it is about using MM effectively, i.e. maxing out MM wasn't my sole intention.
Is this for a home game? If so ask your DM if you can use Force Missile mage. Its from the Dragon Magazine Paizo made for 3.5. Should be able to find it somewhere, if not it is in the Dragon Compendium. It can blast through shield and gets extra missiles.
|
I tend to skip Sorcerer for anything to do with meta magic. Arcane bloodline is good but doesn't allow you to tag on enough meta magics a day.
Remember this golden rule about Sorcerers. When using Meta magics Feats from person or from a Rod it still takes a FULL ROUND action to cast Verses a Wizards Standard action.
That alone makes me shy completely away from many meta magics on a sorcerer. Yes more spells per day but since your raising levels and such it should be no problem with rolling wizard.
|
|
Versatility with metamagic? You have to waste a feat for limited capacity? A wizard is by definition more versatile then a Sorcerer by not having a fixed spell list. Every feat a Sorcerer takes has to go to making him better with the spells he chooses. A wizard has more playing room with their feats.
All in all in base of the class without any other feats but meta magics the wizard is better off. Not only casting time but they learn their higher level spells a level sooner so your meta magics can come online 1 level faster then a Sorcerer.
My vote is stick to wizard for this kind of Character design as you will be overall stronger even if you get a few less spells a day. Your basically looking at downgrading to a tier 2 character by choosing sorcerer.
|
|
As a magic user action economy is the name of the game. It may not have killed you yet but it could get you killed. Only real argument I have is T1 verses T2. But I tend to play mostly T1 classes. I only drop lower if I'm not going higher then 12 and I want something different then absolute power. I figure he will hit 9th level spells and be fighting Higher level Magic users. I'd suggest not giving them an entire round to deal with you after passing the spell craft to know what your doing.
Secondly it is not a "minor" point of action economy to take a full round to cast. Maybe in the surprise round it matters very little. But I do know Charging a round for a fireball forces your melee to stop and wait thus hurting their action economy. Don't trivialize it with saying it is minor. A lot can be done with action economy.
I know Karzuog is a extreme example because he is BBEG from a set adventure path with outrageous wealth but there is a reason He is an almost impossible to win fight especially without negative levels. Action economy. That Greater Rod of Quicken magic to allow him to Quicken Time Stop and Ruin on the party. It will wipe most groups all on round 1. If you won initiative and begin charging your full round cast your going to be dead before your spell goes off. That's the extreme example but one I don't want to find myself in so I roll T1 and Curbstomp on everything I come across.
I think you are confusing "Casting Time: 1 round" with "Full Round Action". Sorcerers still cast on their turn, they just don't cast as a standard action then get to enjoy their move action.
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.)
It's easy to miss, but it isn't as bad for sorcs and bards to apply metamagic as you believe.
Think that means increases the damage dice cap by 5 levels, not 5 damage dice. Thus you scale at 11 and 13, then you're done.Magic Missile doesn't scale at all.
Intensify increase damage dice by 5 levels.
Magic Missile doesn't scale by damage dice. It scales by missiles.
Edit: Ah, I see this has already been discussed. Anywho... you're not going to get a more definitive answer from Paizo. The answer is already pretty clear cut.
Except it's not entirely clear cut, hence the debate.
The spell does go up by missile, but each missile is a die of damage.
Personally, I read the feat and spell interaction as continuing the progression for 5 levels, essentially allowing for 2 more missiles. In the added 5 levels from the final missile progression you would gain an additional missile at 11th and 13th levels and that would be that.
I think the feat has an effect on the spell, but not an overwhelming one.
People debate stuff all the time, doesn't mean it isn't clear cut.
"For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile - two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher."
Magic Missile advances by number of missiles. That is clear cut.
"An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels."
Intensify spell raises the level cap for damage dice by 5 levels. Also clear cut.
Can you ignore that and do it anyway? Yeah sure. You can do whatever you and your group wanna do. But by default, Intensify Spell doesn't do anything to Magic Missiles.
Intensified Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can go beyond several normal limitations.
Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is about the best I can do. I don't think it will increase the damage dice because the MM's themselves never do more than 1d4+1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.
The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat, so long as it has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can't be singled out. Objects are not damaged by the spell.
***For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile - two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher.*** If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.
*Note in the description I bolded and italicized that no other variables are modified. The extra missiles are a different variable than the damage itself.
We've gone over that if you want to be very literal, then yes it does not as missiles are not in fact damage dice. By strict, literal RAW without added clarification it would not work. I'm curious though if the devs would consider it applying to these 1 die/1 object situations, not like Scorching Ray where it's 4d6/ray.
The Scorching Ray is just like the Magic Missile, except it requires you to make a touch attack and it does a different amount of damage.
You blast your enemies with a searing beam of fire. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and *deals 4d6 points* of fire damage. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously.
The intensified spell doesn't change anything here either, because the number of rays is a different variable than the damage.
If they changed the Missiles they'd have to change the rays to keep everyone from crying about nerfing their ideas.
the plan is to capitalize on the Shadow Well ability, beginning at level 9, or hopefully sooner at level 5 with Robes of Arcane Heritage.
afaik the robes don't grant you new powers, it just increases your effective level for powers you already have.
I would say that a 1 die / "ray" effect is certainly different than a 4 die / ray effect, but that's just me. I do see where you're coming from of how people could open the flood gates with it.
Indeed, they are different in that one uses 1 die and the other uses 4 dice.
What I meant is that the concept is the same. The numerical damage amount that each ray/missile does is set. The thing that increases the damage is the extra rays/missiles.
I would say that a 1 die / "ray" effect is certainly different than a 4 die / ray effect, but that's just me. I do see where you're coming from of how people could open the flood gates with it.
If their 'no new rays or missiles' argument is valid, then equally valid is the fact that the spell can just create the damage, but without new rays.
So you'd have +2d4+2 of damage tacked onto one of your magic missiles, and +5d6 of damage tacked onto one of your rays...increasing the damage without increasing the number of carriers. The meta would be, in effect, breaking the damage/missile limit...exactly like Empower does, among other things.
==Aelryinth
Actually, the damage dice do progress evenly, but are 'allocated' in clusters. Magic missile is very clearly 1 die/2 levels, and Scorching Ray clearly 1+ 1 die/lvl. The argument is that the number of clusters cannot increase. That does not stop the amount of damage dice from going up.
I believe JJ posted that he had no problems with additional rays or MM's with the feat, but YMMV.
Note that Toppling sounds impressive, until you realize that you only get 1 check/target, regardless of how many missiles you hit them with...it's still only one incidence of damage. Yeah, you could knock over 5 goblins...but at that level, who cares?
==Aelryinth