Real-world religions and the Pathfinder Campaign setting


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I was reading through "Entombed with the Pharaohs" and noticed that in the image depicting one of the Expeditionary robbing the musem, the picture in the back was a copy of Da Vinci's Last Supper.

Thinking about that, playing part of "Rasputin must die" and reading that the Egyptian Gods are canonical to the setting, I was wondering: Are other real world deities real in the campaign setting?


It's certainly possible. Treat with caution, though.

It is possible to read Asmodeus as Earth's Satan, if one wishes to, and Ihys as the Abrahamic God.

Of course, that would also mean God is Dead.

Liberty's Edge

No other gods from real-world myths are worshiped on Golarion...so we have no idea, since we only get any details of deities when they are worshiped on Golarion.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
No other gods from real-world myths are worshiped on Golarion...so we have no idea, since we only get any details of deities when they are worshiped on Golarion.

Ahriman is worshipped in Golarion, so is Pazuzu and Lamashtu, as is Dagon, but the real world Dagon is not exactly the version from golarion


For the dragon gods there are Tiamat and Apsu from Babylonian mythology and fairly true to their real world mythology. And there is Dahak who is essentially Azi Dahaka from Persian Zoroastrianism.

As you noted there is also Baba Yaga who in some theories is or was a nature goddess.

Most every Archdevil, a lot of the demon lords, and half of the four daemon horsemen are from real world mythology.

All of the Cthulhu mythos is mixed in as well, so a real world literary mythology as well.

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Aside on names...
It could also be the Golarion deities (or the Earth deities) just find the same names 'convienent'.

So Asmodeus (Golarion) might find it convienent to use the name of Asmodeus (Earth) or vice versa.


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Reminds me of a tournament module I outlined but never completed back in the late '80s...

A female paladin had fallen through a dimensional rift into the World of Greyhawk. She told a tale of oppression and corruption of her church back in her home world, and thanked her god for sending her to "fairyland," as she called it. Over a few years, she raised a huge army, complete with many good-aligned magical creatures, and readied to march her army back through the rift to bring righteousness to her home world.

The PCs learn that if she does go, she'll succed on the short term, but that act will unleash terrible ramification on her world-- a world without magic. The paladin, however, is convinced of the justice of her cause, and will not be dissuaded.

So the PCs have to stop Joan of Arc from leading a fantasy army into medieval France.


Kerney wrote:
Axial wrote:

Erastil seems to resemble a pseudo Celtic diety.

I forgot, the Empyreal lord Cernunos matches up to the Celtic god Cernunos.

Shadow Lodge

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Voadam wrote:
Most every Archdevil, a lot of the demon lords, and half of the four daemon horsemen are from real world mythology.

A lot of the Empyreal Lords, too, especially ones that have names and domains, but no actual writeup in the Chronicles of the Righteous.


I think not having real world religions in Pathfinder is more 'Keep us from being sued into bankruptcy' than anything else.

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I prefer to think that it's out of respect for their customers who have strong religious beliefs.

Although I did have an interesting conversation with Jessica Price about stats for Jesus. Somebody beat Paizo to that particular punch, though.


Snark Victory wrote:
but the real world Dagon is not exactly the version from golarion

Or is he?

Liberty's Edge

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Charlie Bell wrote:
I prefer to think that it's out of respect for their customers who have strong religious beliefs.

Eh...if that's the case they're not being very consistent. I have a friend who worships the Egyptian Gods, for example.

Now, I don't have a problem with Paizo portraying any real-world Gods, and don't think it's necessarily insensitive to do so, but I would hope that if they were going to avoid all real-world religions with devout worshipers, they'd be consistent about it.

I suspect bad PR and the possibility of being sued have more to do with it.

Silver Crusade

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So basically it's not a concern about offending "religions" as a whole, just "religions" that matter.


Kyra Clone #3,785 wrote:
So basically it's not a concern about offending "religions" as a whole, just "religions" that matter.

Most people don't take the fringe and revivalist religions seriously enough to worry about offending them. Take Asatru for example. It's a recognized religion in Norway but you don't see mass protests about Thor's depiction in the Avengers. Gods like Thor have lost their divinity in the eyes of the world and are simply mythological figures used for entertainment. Maybe the Abrahamic religions will be like this someday, but not now or in the near future.

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Someone is always going to be offended. *shrug* Paizo, like every other business or person, chooses who they want to offend.


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I didn't want this to be a question about offense and the like, I just want to get a handle of the divine hierarchy of the setting, which was blown away for me when I found out that the creatures of the dark tapestry probbaly created humanity, and some guy in Golarion has a portrait of Jesus in his collection.

I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth


Ilmater from FR was almost Jesus.

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Mavrickindigo wrote:

I didn't want this to be a question about offense and the like, I just want to get a handle of the divine hierarchy of the setting, which was blown away for me when I found out that the creatures of the dark tapestry probbaly created humanity, and some guy in Golarion has a portrait of Jesus in his collection.

I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth

It's easier if you remember that Pathfinder!Earth isn't Reality!Earth, anymore than Earth Prime isn't really Reality!Earth in DC comics.

It's quite possible to play, for example, a life oracle who thinks he's (a) Messiah, or Aroden reborn. Whether he is or not, only your GM knows for sure.

As far as the game is concerned, Set/Anubis/Asmodeus/Moloch et. al. are deities worshiped in Golarion. They say they're the same deities/powers as their Pathfinder!Earth counterparts, but who's to contradict them?


Mavrickindigo wrote:
I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth

Christianity must exist in the Golarion universe because that volume featured a ruined Eastern Orthodox Christian church with all the trappings.

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Jeven wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:
I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth
Christianity must exist in the Golarion universe because in that AP we saw a ruined Eastern Orthodox Christian church.

So I'm curious, how did divine magic work on Earth in that AP? Did clerics keep getting spells? Because if Golarion deities can grant spells on Earth, then Earth deities should be able to grant spells on Golarion.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Jeven wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:
I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth
Christianity must exist in the Golarion universe because in that AP we saw a ruined Eastern Orthodox Christian church.
So I'm curious, how did divine magic work on Earth in that AP? Did clerics keep getting spells? Because if Golarion deities can grant spells on Earth, then Earth deities should be able to grant spells on Golarion.

According to the AP magic and divine miracles no longer play a part in the modern world, C20th Earth.

It suggests though that they once did and presumably the miracles performed by legendary Christian saints were similar to Golarion's divine magic. Of course the D&D/Pathfinder clerical spell lists were based on legends of various Christian miracles so it does kind of fit - especially all the miraculous healing and curing type spells, and even the Biblical-story ones like flame strike, part water, walk on water, create food and water, and so on.


Jeven wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Jeven wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:
I blame "Raputin Must Die" for complicating things by introducing Earth
Christianity must exist in the Golarion universe because in that AP we saw a ruined Eastern Orthodox Christian church.
So I'm curious, how did divine magic work on Earth in that AP? Did clerics keep getting spells? Because if Golarion deities can grant spells on Earth, then Earth deities should be able to grant spells on Golarion.

According to the AP magic and divine miracles no longer play a part in the modern world, C20th Earth.

It suggests though that they once did and presumably the miracles performed by legendary Christian saints were similar to Golarion's divine magic. Of course the D&D/Pathfinder clerical spell lists were based on legends of various Christian miracles so it does kind of fit - especially all the miraculous healing and curing type spells, and even the Biblical-story ones like flame strike, part water, walk on water, create food and water, and so on.

But PC clerics from Golarion kept on receiving spells. And of course Rasputin had divine magic.

Dark Archive

HarbinNick wrote:
Ilmater from FR was almost Jesus.

Me and my friends refer to him as "Kung-Fu Jesus".

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I don't have the book handy, but I inferred from it that Pathfinder!Earth is low magic and that Rasputin's Teslatech is all that allows him to go full on Oracle.

I'm also thinking of "Land Beyond the Gate" where the PCs start out at full power, but if they dither enough they'll 'leak out' the higher magic they possess and eventually would be stuck playing Papers and Paychecks.

It's not quite 'Dying Earth' but I'd say that Pathfinder!Earth might exist/pass into an area of low/dead magic. Didn't Baba Yaga leave for that very reason?


Andrea1 wrote:
I think not having real world religions in Pathfinder is more 'Keep us from being sued into bankruptcy' than anything else.

It depends on the religion, I suppose. While not for Golarian, the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) (by Rite Publishing) has a major religion that is heavily based on Buddhist concepts (the wheel of life, reincarnation, karma) which is called Zaoism (kind of a cross between Zen and Tao). I have actually had an American Buddhist 'bishop' (midwest US regional leader) that said "Wow, what a cool idea" and she offered tips on specific details of my version to make it better. So it depends on what religion you're basing your fictional version, what you're doing with it, and who's looking...


thejeff wrote:
But PC clerics from Golarion kept on receiving spells. And of course Rasputin had divine magic.

The location in the adventure wasn't a natural part of Earth.

Spoiler:
The monastery/camp was in the process of being merged with Baba Yaga's magical kingdom in the First World using some weird Tesla tech.


Well, it's not Pathfinder, but the St. Cuthbert of the D&D Greyhawk pantheon and the Roman Catholic saint of the same name were pretty much the same person...


Think of it as not the real earth but the Call of Cthulhu earth. That simplifies the matter greatly.


I can probably get the stats for God that were posted by someone. They aren't very friendly to God though.

Verdant Wheel

Not all religions are weirded by being present in fiction works. Yrth from Gurps Fantasy used real-word religions (even some Islamic ones) and didn't even arise much attention from that.


Frankly, monotheism and all powerful gods are less interesting than the conflict you get with a pantheon.
-Only a few people are going to go into outright devil pacts like Faust, most people are going to avoid that.
-I think polytheism is a huge help to the game world, and concepts almost require it.


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Out of all the reason why having the real Earth be part of the Golarion setting is an extremely bad idea, and there is many, in my opinion the way something might interact with real world religions and not just mythologies is number one on the list. It's a disaster waiting to happen especially with anybody religious in a group of players.

I can just imagine some player's character coming to Earth and casting magic divinations to find out which religion is the "real one", what really happened thousands of years ago, wondering if their gods are real that must mean all those other religions are false or at least wondering if there god is tougher than one of our major religions gods. Have fun coming up with answers for those GMs.

Dark Archive

the demon lord Abraxas is apparently a deity in the gnostic pantheon.

Grand Lodge

What would prevent a Christian fundamentalist from accidentally going through a dimensional portal and ending up in Golarion?

Presumably, were this to happen, they would carry on trying to convince people to accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior, and probably confuse people in the process.

And if it is ultimately belief that powers clerics' spells, rather than a deity, perhaps the fundie might even find themselves capable of casting clerical spells.

Liberty's Edge

Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
What would prevent a Christian fundamentalist from accidentally going through a dimensional portal and ending up in Golarion?

Well, as per Rasputin Must Die, Golarion is another planet in the same universe as Earth, and the current timeframe of Golarion synchs up with 1920 or so Earth. So...no dimensional portal needed, just a spatial one.

Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
Presumably, were this to happen, they would carry on trying to convince people to accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior, and probably confuse people in the process.

Confuse? That'd depend on presentation. I mean, the idea of a deity nobody had heard of wouldn't confuse anyone. If they started in on 'none of the other Gods are real' people would likely dismiss them as nutty, but if they took a more ope minded approach they might do fine. Well, assuming they were relatively charismatic, anyway.

Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
And if it is ultimately belief that powers clerics' spells, rather than a deity, perhaps the fundie might even find themselves capable of casting clerical spells.

This assumes that the Christian God does not exist in Golarion's universe. That seems pretty spectacularly unlikely given all the others that do. Said deity isn't known on Golarion, but seems likely to be quite real given the metaphysics of the setting.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
What would prevent a Christian fundamentalist from accidentally going through a dimensional portal and ending up in Golarion?

Well, as per Rasputin Must Die, Golarion is another planet in the same universe as Earth, and the current timeframe of Golarion synchs up with 1920 or so Earth. So...no dimensional portal needed, just a spatial one.

Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
Presumably, were this to happen, they would carry on trying to convince people to accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior, and probably confuse people in the process.

Confuse? That'd depend on presentation. I mean, the idea of a deity nobody had heard of wouldn't confuse anyone. If they started in on 'none of the other Gods are real' people would likely dismiss them as nutty, but if they took a more ope minded approach they might do fine. Well, assuming they were relatively charismatic, anyway.

Yamara Potato Nose wrote:
And if it is ultimately belief that powers clerics' spells, rather than a deity, perhaps the fundie might even find themselves capable of casting clerical spells.
This assumes that the Christian God does not exist in Golarion's universe. That seems pretty spectacularly unlikely given all the others that do. Said deity isn't known on Golarion, but seems likely to be quite real given the metaphysics of the setting.

Except for all the issues with either the cosmology or real religions that causes. Either the Christian God is just one god among many, which means at the very best all his earthly followers are very mistaken about his nature, or he is the Supreme Creator, the only true God and nearly everything we know about Golarion's cosmology goes out the window. What does "accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior" even mean in the context of Pharasma anyway?

Which is why it's best to keep modern real world religions out of the setting.

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