
BigNorseWolf |

Also, her short bow should be +4. Same problem, I'm guessing.
I believe she's taking the attack penalty on the bow because its hard for her to pull back
A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.
This could be eliminated after the first adventure or two by buying a composite bow.

Yiroep |

Oft over looked section under strength wrote:A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.This could be eliminated after the first adventure or two by buying a composite bow.
It's under the "damage roll" section, though.
When put into context:
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

Gwen Smith |

The Fox wrote:Also, her short bow should be +4. Same problem, I'm guessing.I believe she's taking the attack penalty on the bow because its hard for her to pull back
Oft over looked section under strength wrote:A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.This could be eliminated after the first adventure or two by buying a composite bow.
Generally, the penalty is worse for a composite bow:
"If your Strength modifier is lower than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it...If you have a negative modifier due to low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite shortbow."
So it's unclear whether you'd add the Strength penalty, but you would definitely take the -2 penalty as well as the penalty to damage rolls. (I don't think you can make a composite bow with a negative Str rating...)

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Your halfling bard's whip attack bonus should be +0. Perhaps you forgot to include her size bonus? Consider taking Weapon Finesse instead of Extra Performance. Her whip attack bonus would become +4 (this bonus applies to trip as well, and disarm would be at +6).
This will be a feat to be chosen in the future. Delarin likes to stay far back from battle and provide support spells/songs/arrows.
Also, I did neglect the size bonus. Thank you.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:Oh well.. crossbow time then?Bards are proficient with short bow only.
Bards are proficient with all Simple Weapons, which includes light and heavy crossbows. It also includes spiked guantlets, so you can always threaten adjacent.

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Phlyk wrote:Bards are proficient with all Simple Weapons, which includes light and heavy crossbows. It also includes spiked guantlets, so you can always threaten adjacent.BigNorseWolf wrote:Oh well.. crossbow time then?Bards are proficient with short bow only.
Wow, thank you for pointing that out. I may have to make a trade! 1d4-1 reeeeeally sucks for supporting fire!

Gwen Smith |

The Fox wrote:Your halfling bard's whip attack bonus should be +0. Perhaps you forgot to include her size bonus? Consider taking Weapon Finesse instead of Extra Performance. Her whip attack bonus would become +4 (this bonus applies to trip as well, and disarm would be at +6).This will be a feat to be chosen in the future. Delarin likes to stay far back from battle and provide support spells/songs/arrows.
Also, I did neglect the size bonus. Thank you.
Whip is a good option for a "like to be in second rank" character. Since you have a 15 foot reach, you can be more than a five-foot step away and still attack into melee for aid another (especially if you take the Helpful Halfling racial trait).
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.

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Andarius wrote:The Fox wrote:Your halfling bard's whip attack bonus should be +0. Perhaps you forgot to include her size bonus? Consider taking Weapon Finesse instead of Extra Performance. Her whip attack bonus would become +4 (this bonus applies to trip as well, and disarm would be at +6).This will be a feat to be chosen in the future. Delarin likes to stay far back from battle and provide support spells/songs/arrows.
Also, I did neglect the size bonus. Thank you.
Whip is a good option for a "like to be in second rank" character. Since you have a 15 foot reach, you can be more than a five-foot step away and still attack into melee for aid another (especially if you take the Helpful Halfling racial trait).
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.
for a while I would combine it with an unseen servant cast earlier (duration is an hour per level), with instructions to bring me any weapons dropped within 25 feet of me. Then I got true strike on a wand (for UMD) and started collecting!

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Andarius wrote:The Fox wrote:Your halfling bard's whip attack bonus should be +0. Perhaps you forgot to include her size bonus? Consider taking Weapon Finesse instead of Extra Performance. Her whip attack bonus would become +4 (this bonus applies to trip as well, and disarm would be at +6).This will be a feat to be chosen in the future. Delarin likes to stay far back from battle and provide support spells/songs/arrows.
Also, I did neglect the size bonus. Thank you.
Whip is a good option for a "like to be in second rank" character. Since you have a 15 foot reach, you can be more than a five-foot step away and still attack into melee for aid another (especially if you take the Helpful Halfling racial trait).
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.
Doesn't aid another require the target to be within your reach? Which isn't 15ft with a whip without some serious feat investment?

Akerlof |
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.
How do you adjudicate the Weaponwand + CLW wand, and do you run into table variation?
Normally you don't need to make an attack roll against a willing target, but I don't know that that applies to manufactured weapons during combat. I'm tempted to simply allow them to heal from 15' reach (Rule of Cool and all that,) but I don't know how other GMs would rule it and I'm not 100% certain I'm being completely objective in this case.

Gwen Smith |

Dorothy Lindman wrote:Doesn't aid another require the target to be within your reach? Which isn't 15ft with a whip without some serious feat investment?Whip is a good option for a "like to be in second rank" character. Since you have a 15 foot reach, you can be more than a five-foot step away and still attack into melee for aid another (especially if you take the Helpful Halfling racial trait).
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.
Regular Aid Another is a standard action: if you can attack the target, you can aid your ally. I can attack a target 15 ft away with a whip, so...
Could you be thinking of Bodyguard, which lets you perform the aid another action as an Attack of Opportunity? For AoOs, you would be correct: the whip doesn't threaten without some feats.

Gwen Smith |

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.How do you adjudicate the Weaponwand + CLW wand, and do you run into table variation?
Normally you don't need to make an attack roll against a willing target, but I don't know that that applies to manufactured weapons during combat. I'm tempted to simply allow them to heal from 15' reach (Rule of Cool and all that,) but I don't know how other GMs would rule it and I'm not 100% certain I'm being completely objective in this case.
Technically, a character can choose to take an attack, or at least make themselves flatfooted for a single target, single attack. So at worst I'd say you have to hit their flatfooted touch AC (which, given cover, could be an issue at lower levels). A more lenient GM could use more of a "roll your attack and you miss on a 1" rule, which seems pretty fair.

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Akerlof wrote:Technically, a character can choose to take an attack, or at least make themselves flatfooted for a single target, single attack. So at worst I'd say you have to hit their flatfooted touch AC (which, given cover, could be an issue at lower levels). A more lenient GM could use more of a "roll your attack and you miss on a 1" rule, which seems pretty fair.Dorothy Lindman wrote:
My favorite use of a whip by a support caster was the bard who cast Weaponwand (from Inner Sea Magic, I think) to put his wand of cure light into his whip, then used it to deliver cure spells at reach, all while standing safely behind the heavily armored fighter.How do you adjudicate the Weaponwand + CLW wand, and do you run into table variation?
Normally you don't need to make an attack roll against a willing target, but I don't know that that applies to manufactured weapons during combat. I'm tempted to simply allow them to heal from 15' reach (Rule of Cool and all that,) but I don't know how other GMs would rule it and I'm not 100% certain I'm being completely objective in this case.
I might even allow the target to count his dex bonus as a penality to his AC - sort of like dodging into the attack.
Would there be any concern with the fact that the whip couldn't actually damage any character in armor? Would that prevent the spell from taking effect?

Mistwalker |

Why are you suddenly adding some kind of mechanic/penalty for beneficial touch spells?
We don't ask the bard to make a touch attack when they are using their wand of CLW to touch the fighter to heal them (any cure spell). So why add something in for weaponwand spell used with a CLW wand? Doesn't the wording "For the spell’s duration, a character who wields the transmuted weapon is also considered to be wielding the wand as well" mean that the bard would have a 15' reach wand?

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Why are you suddenly adding some kind of mechanic/penalty for beneficial touch spells?
We don't ask the bard to make a touch attack when they are using their wand of CLW to touch the fighter to heal them (any cure spell). So why add something in for weaponwand spell used with a CLW wand? Doesn't the wording "For the spell’s duration, a character who wields the transmuted weapon is also considered to be wielding the wand as well" mean that the bard would have a 15' reach wand?
Clearly it is because I have not read the spells in question... and I was making an un-informed snap judge's call. ;)
I am not sure that "...the bard would have a 15' reach wand?" I would have to read it more and consider it.
And having already messed up one call, I am not sure I want to repeat my error again. ;)

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Mistwalker wrote:Why are you suddenly adding some kind of mechanic/penalty for beneficial touch spells?
We don't ask the bard to make a touch attack when they are using their wand of CLW to touch the fighter to heal them (any cure spell). So why add something in for weaponwand spell used with a CLW wand? Doesn't the wording "For the spell’s duration, a character who wields the transmuted weapon is also considered to be wielding the wand as well" mean that the bard would have a 15' reach wand?
Clearly it is because I have not read the spells in question... and I was making an un-informed snap judge's call. ;)
I am not sure that "...the bard would have a 15' reach wand?" I would have to read it more and consider it.
And having already messed up one call, I am not sure I want to repeat my error again. ;)
The only thing weapon wand does is allow you to use the wand without having to draw it since it is drawn. All other rules for the spell apply. You cannot use a whip to increase the range of the spell because the whip is not the spell, the whip is just a wand. When using the wand, your not touching people with it, your using your hand, which is why you cannot dual wield wands, you need a hand free.

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nosig wrote:Mistwalker wrote:Why are you suddenly adding some kind of mechanic/penalty for beneficial touch spells?
We don't ask the bard to make a touch attack when they are using their wand of CLW to touch the fighter to heal them (any cure spell). So why add something in for weaponwand spell used with a CLW wand? Doesn't the wording "For the spell’s duration, a character who wields the transmuted weapon is also considered to be wielding the wand as well" mean that the bard would have a 15' reach wand?
Clearly it is because I have not read the spells in question... and I was making an un-informed snap judge's call. ;)
I am not sure that "...the bard would have a 15' reach wand?" I would have to read it more and consider it.
And having already messed up one call, I am not sure I want to repeat my error again. ;)
The only thing weapon wand does is allow you to use the wand without having to draw it since it is drawn. All other rules for the spell apply. You cannot use a whip to increase the range of the spell because the whip is not the spell, the whip is just a wand. When using the wand, your not touching people with it, your using your hand, which is why you cannot dual wield wands, you need a hand free.
wait... you need an extra hand free to use a wand? So a Cleric using a shield could not use a CLW wand?

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A cleric with a weapon in one hand and a (non-buckler) shield in the other would need to free up one hand or the other in order to draw and weild a wand.
Chris, from Zacks statement above, when he says "When using the wand, your not touching people with it, your using your hand, which is why you cannot dual wield wands, you need a hand free." it appears to me that he is saying that you cannot use the hand that has the wand in it to deliver the spell, you would have to have the wand in one hand, and deliver the touch with the other hand. In other words, you could not have a weapon OR shield in one hand and the wand in the other when you deliver the spell. Wand in right hand, deliver the spell with the left, neither one having a shield OR weapon... (with the spell in question, the whip becomes the wand, and is in one hand... you need to use the other to deliver the spell).
I was trying to understand if this was what he was saying, as I have always referenced using a wand of a touch range spell as "touching the target with the wand" - NOT with the other hand. And I am trying to understand if I have been doing it wrong.

Mistwalker |

I too have always seen the spell being cast throught the wand, and for touch spells, the wand has to touch the target, not the wand wielder's hand.
If Weaponwand spell allows you to activate the wand and have it discharge into the target that the wielder hit with the weapon, wouldn't that also indicate that the wand needs to touch the target?

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Per SRD
"Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item."
I believe what Zach refers to is this:
"A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component."
"To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can't cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied."
This however does not apply to a wand, as spells cast through a spell-trigger item require no somatic component. There is also nothing in the SRD that says you cannot use the same hand to hold the wand and to gesture. Works for Mickey Mouse in fantasia, right?