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25 pts, muse-touched aasimar
level 16
Str:10
Dex:20 (+2 levels)
Con:16 (+2 levels)
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:16
Feats
1-Finesse, combat reflexes
3-Lunge (possibly power attack)
4-Weapon specialization Rapier.
5-Iron Will
7- Extra Panache
8-Weapon focus Rapier
9-Greater weapon focus Rapier
11-Sig. deed, parry and riposte
12- Greater Weapon Spec.
13-Great fort.
15-Penetrating Strike
16-Extra Panache
(I didn't spend an immense amount of time looking into this, but I think this works well for a damage dealer.)
Magic Gear.
Celestial Armor
+5 agile, keen Rapier (you want as much +to hit as possible for parries)
Ring of Evasion
Boots of Speed
Belt of Incredible dexterity +6
Head band of alluring Charisma +6
Cloak of Res +4
Ioun Stone, Pale green.
Gloves of Dueling.
Final Stats
Str:10
Dex:26
Con:16
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:22
Offense
to hit. 16+2(wep focus)+8(dex)+5(weapon)+5(wep training),+1 (Haste)+1(Ioun Stone)
total- +38/+38/+33/+28/+23
Damage: precision strike 16+8(Dex)+ 5(weapon)+4(wep spec.)+5(wep training)for ~1d6+30 damage per hit. (if power attack works, this goes up sometimes) 15-20 crit range.
10 panache total at start of day, as swift action can spend 1 panache to gain +16 damage on my next attack (deed).
Defense:
HP (avg +con): 130
AC:30
Fort:+11
Ref:+22
Will:+11(can bump up to +17 several times a day)
Barbarian, Human, Invulnerable rager
Str:20 (+2 level)
Dex:14
Con:18 (+2 levels)
Int:9
Wis:14
Cha:7
Feats and powers
1-Power attack, weapon focus Greatsword
2-rage power- Superstition
3-Cleave
4-Lesser Beast totem
5-Ragin Vitality
6-Beast totem
7-Extra rage power- Witch Hunter
8-SPell Sunder
9-extra rage power Increased DR
10- Greater Beast Totem
11-Iron Will
12-Come and get me
13-Combat Reflexes
14- Increased DR
15-???
16-Unexpected Strike
Magic Items
Belt of Physical Power +6/+6
Boots of Speed
Cloak of Res +3
+5 keen Greatsword
+5 Mith Chainmail
Ring of Prot +4
Tome of strength +2
end Stats
Str:28
Dex:14
Con:24
Int:9
Wis:14
Cha:7
To hit while raging
16+1(wep focus)+12(str)+5(weapon)+1(haste)
+35 to hit
+35/+35/+30/+25/+20
Damage ~2d6+40
Defense
AC: while raging-25 DR10/-
HP (while raging)~290 hp. (WOW, I love barbarians lol)
Fort:24
Ref:12
Will:~20
better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)
and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
I think OP means "top-tier among martials." In which case, I agree. So, heartily, in fact, that I've decided to nerf Precise strike. If the Cavalier and Paladin only get level to damage against 1 guy, a limited number of times per day, why does a swashbuckler get it as a passive bonus at level three? How many abilities are worth running out of panache? Compared to: level to damage, and a passive Initiative bonus?
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At high levels the swashbuckler may be competitive but it is significantly less powerful at lower levels (especially if you actually make a Dex based build). A Dex build is pretty much garbage (in terms of fulfilling the traditional fighter role of doing damage and/or tanking) until you get either an agile weapon or Dervish Dance (both non core)
And those low saving throws make a massive Achilles heel. Hopefully one that will be fixed when the actual book comes out.
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At high levels the swashbuckler may be competitive but it is significantly less powerful at lower levels (especially if you actually make a Dex based build). A Dex build is pretty much garbage (in terms of fulfilling the traditional fighter role of doing damage and/or tanking) until you get either an agile weapon or Dervish Dance (both non core)
And those low saving throws make a massive Achilles heel. Hopefully one that will be fixed when the actual book comes out.
dervish dance is accepted at most tables and can be picked up at level 1 with this build without the need to be human.
(though this postpones other things)
will saves are not to bad at level 3+. Fort imo, should be full though.
12/12/6 would be, in my mind a good save roster for the swashbuckler, but man, that parry+riposte and level to damage is amazing.
ALSO
@Green Smashomancer, please remember that the swashbucklers damage is precision damage, and so fortification may render null, as well as being immune to criticals (it does not specificy IIRC it immune to SA renders it null as well,but since most monsters immune to crit are immune to SA its rendered null) and being precision is NOT multiplied on a crit, (I still don't understand why they make a class based around crits to gain /day resources back, feel lackluster when critting)
while the paladin/cavalier damage is ALWAYS going to work, and is multiplied upon a crit.
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no, you can't. There is a skill requirement for dervish dance. The earliest anyone other than a dawnflower dervish can take it is level 3.
dervish dance is accepted at most tables and can be picked up at level 1 with this build without the need to be human.
true enough, my bad, still. at 3, your doing good damage.
the only real "dead zone" with you doing under par damage is level 2.
I'm aware that it's precision damage, I just don't think 1 armor enhancement, that has a chance of failing, and a small selection of enemy types, is enough of a hindrance. And the Challenge/Smite may get multiplied, but at level 3 they have, what? One, two uses of those abilities? This is an ability that ALWAYS works, and on more than just one opponent. Personally, I would prefer it as an ability that adds swashbuckler level x2 (or whatever crit multiplier applies) on crit. But as a passive bonus to every attack against the vast majority of the bestiary, Its just too much. Between precise strike, and poor saves, this class has a huge Glass Cannon vibe.
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I'm aware that it's precision damage, I just don't think 1 armor enhancement, that has a chance of failing, and a small selection of enemy types, is enough of a hindrance. And the Challenge/Smite may get multiplied, but at level 3 they have, what? One, two uses of those abilities? This is an ability that ALWAYS works, and on more than just one opponent. Personally, I would prefer it as an ability that adds swashbuckler level x2 (or whatever crit multiplier applies) on crit. But as a passive bonus to every attack against the vast majority of the bestiary, Its just too much. Between precise strike, and poor saves, this class has a huge Glass Cannon vibe.
well... it IS a rogue archetype basically.. ALso, remember that we swashbuckelrs can add our CHA mod to will saves 3/day at level 3.
honestly, I still don't see how the precise damage is so "op" I mean, look at the dam barbarian. does more damage at level 3 than the swashbuckler without raging.
(2d6+10ish from strength and power attack)
vs 1d6+3 from precise strike, 1d6+7ish if dervish dancing.
are you going to nerf them barbs to?
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At high levels the swashbuckler may be competitive but it is significantly less powerful at lower levels (especially if you actually make a Dex based build). A Dex build is pretty much garbage (in terms of fulfilling the traditional fighter role of doing damage and/or tanking) until you get either an agile weapon or Dervish Dance (both non core)
And those low saving throws make a massive Achilles heel. Hopefully one that will be fixed when the actual book comes out.
I take it you never read RogueEidolon's level by level comparison of a Swashbuckler Sally to Falchion Fred?
They had identical stats and roughly the same feat selections.
Number's wise they were pretty much neck and neck the whole way through.
However the important lesson to take form this was a STR swashbuckler being the equivalent of a fighter from level 1 onward with the addition of having better saves on the swashbuckler and plenty of interesting abilities.
At low levels a DEX based swashbuckler will still be fine. High dex, light armor, buckler, and nimble mean a very solid defense in this early part. Constant level to damage is incredibly good and damage issues evaporate by level 5 by literally being handed Improved Critical on a platter a full 3 levels before anyone else.
So depending on hat you feel is low level a 14 str swashbuckler with weapon spec and a rapier at level 5 is looking at 1d6+10 15-20/x2.
A two handing 18str fighter with a falchion is looking at 2d4+9 18-20/x2.
With power attack involved you're looking at the fither being slightly ahead by this point.
But, as I said before this is before the swashbuckler thinks of doing things like using panache.
Now, for the record, Ultimate Equipment is considered a core book and contains the agile enchantment in it. So if we consider agile non-core now than so is the swashbuckler making the point moot.
no, you can't. There is a skill requirement for dervish dance. The earliest anyone other than a dawnflower dervish can take it is level 3.
dervish dance is accepted at most tables and can be picked up at level 1 with this build without the need to be human.
eh, fighter level 2?
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eh, fighter level 2?no, you can't. There is a skill requirement for dervish dance. The earliest anyone other than a dawnflower dervish can take it is level 3.
dervish dance is accepted at most tables and can be picked up at level 1 with this build without the need to be human.
debatable, it requires perform (dance) rank 2. some say at 2 if you put the points in you can take it, others argue that you have to have the skill ranks at level up. :/ (at least, that was the debate around my old place)
Could I get a link to these new classes? I can't find just a good honest description or overview of them anywhere. What is a Slayer? What is a Swashbuckler? What do they do?
Could I get a link to these new classes? I can't find just a good honest description or overview of them anywhere. What is a Slayer? What is a Swashbuckler? What do they do?
One slays and one swashes their buckler, duh.
They're from the last playtest of the ACG you should be able to find the download on the paizo site if you search for advanced class guide revised playtest.
better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
I hear tell that when you hit a high level barbarian his instant reaction is to cut your fool head off.
And pounce.
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better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
pounces mean nothing if ya can't hit with 'em.
That aside, sunder is EXTREMELY situational dispel magic. for save is def better, as its a class based on Str>con
will save is slightly better. though with +17-19 on the swashbuckler its almost moot. (swashy DOES need full fort saves imo)
also. do take a look a the deeds he can use, there are some really good ones I didn't go over.
better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
I hear tell that when you hit a high level barbarian his instant reaction is to cut your fool head off.
And pounce.
I hear when you try to cut his head off yourself the blade bounces off
And pounce.
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better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
I hear tell that when you hit a high level barbarian his instant reaction is to cut your fool head off.
And pounce.
not that it matters outside of PvP, but the swashbuckler can make a opportune parry vs AoOs, including the barbs come and get me attacks.
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an
opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler,
she can spend 1 panache point and can expend a use of an
attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack
That's the tricky part, at the low levels anything with a two-hander will shine. Of course, I think it's worth a look at from a close-up perspective, I do like the class, but a passive level equivalent in damage, and I'm not especially good with builds, I was looking at this from a "big picture" kind of angle. I figured AM NOTHING BUT BEATSTICK would be better at sheer DPR, but I really don't see how this is balanced well. What would have been wrong with just dex to damage? That should be the classes thing, right? I mean one of the Swashbucklers parent classes gets it, and puts out more attacks, too.
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better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
I hear tell that when you hit a high level barbarian his instant reaction is to cut your fool head off.
And pounce.
not that it matters outside of PvP, but the swashbuckler can make a opportune parry vs AoOs, including the barbs come and get me attacks.
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an
opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler,
she can spend 1 panache point and can expend a use of an
attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack
That honestly sounds like a gm'ing nightmare out of the princess bride.
Swashbuckler: I attack! Huzzah!
Barbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Swashubckler: Huzzah! I attempt to parry! Riposte!
Barbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Swashbuckler: Savage fiend you can't possibly win! PArry! Riposte!
BArbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Repeat until the gm smashes both characters with rocks.
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better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
I hear tell that when you hit a high level barbarian his instant reaction is to cut your fool head off.
And pounce.
not that it matters outside of PvP, but the swashbuckler can make a opportune parry vs AoOs, including the barbs come and get me attacks.
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an
opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler,
she can spend 1 panache point and can expend a use of an
attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attackThat honestly sounds like a gm'ing nightmare out of the princess bride.
Swashbuckler: I attack! Huzzah!
Barbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Swashubckler: Huzzah! I attempt to parry! Riposte!
Barbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Swashbuckler: Savage fiend you can't possibly win! PArry! Riposte!
BArbarian: Come and get me triggers.
Repeat until the gm smashes both characters with rocks.
I love it, but alas, you can only get so many AoOs.
better saves, sadly.
But the kicker is, the swashbuckler can parry melee attacks, (its not always gaurenteed, but he has an okay chance to parry the barbarian!)and his damage isn't to far off from the barbs! (spending panache brings them up close to the same!)
it boils down to the barb has more static, reliable defenses, while the swashbuckler has a stronger but somewhat less reliable defense. I was sort of rushed when I did this so some things may be wrong and I apologize for that if they are.
it is mnot just better save but considerably better ones.
And pounce.
And can dispel magic.
And pounce.
And his DPR is just better and more consistently. It doee not falls against certain kind of enemies.
And pounce.
pounces mean nothing if ya can't hit with 'em.
That aside, sunder is EXTREMELY situational dispel magic. for save is def better, as its a class based on Str>con
will save is slightly better. though with +17-19 on the swashbuckler its almost moot. (swashy DOES need full fort saves imo)also. do take a look a the deeds he can use, there are some really good ones I didn't go over.
If you can not hit who with them? certainly they can hit any level apropiated mosnter. If the swash can hit them the barbarian can too.
(By the way the swash is advertised as a mobile fighter, but pounce and extra speed just make the barbarian a better in this regard).
Also, take away cleave and put strengh surge in the mix. TAke eater of magic at level 15 and the saves gap grows.
Also, a +4 furious keen greatsword is better. Or for tha matter, make it a falchion.
Not sure why the barbarian is using a mithral chainmail, make it a mithral breastplate, or later one with a little more money make it a mithral celestial full plate.
But who will run out first? Hmmmm.
Honestly the better question is can the swashbuckler keep beating the barbarian's attack? Come and get me helps a bit in this regard but barbarian's get some rather impressive attack scores all by themselves.
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Just a heads up, from now on, I will always picture Inigo vs. Conan (as portrayed by the dashing Ahnold of course) whenever the Swashbuckler and Barbarian get compared.
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But who will run out first? Hmmmm.
Honestly the better question is can the swashbuckler keep beating the barbarian's attack? Come and get me helps a bit in this regard but barbarian's get some rather impressive attack scores all by themselves.
the barb, dex swashbucklers hate sooo many AoOs
true, but both full BaB, leads to rather semi even attack scores. and with access to fighter feats...
it comes down to luck of the dice in the end with barb admittedly having more leeway for failing, what with near 300 hp vs swashbucklers oohh, 150ish? but how often do you fight optimized barbarian PCs?
one thing people forget is the swashbuckler may not just trade blows, but use things to his advantage, which brings in player tactics but.. vs a raging hulk that can't use any skills other than HULK SMASH! HULK JUMP! could prove a useful, if small, advantage.
But who will run out first? Hmmmm.
Honestly the better question is can the swashbuckler keep beating the barbarian's attack? Come and get me helps a bit in this regard but barbarian's get some rather impressive attack scores all by themselves.
the barb, dex swashbucklers hate sooo many AoOs
More than the terrifying Dexbarian?
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Swashbuckler is full BAB plus weapon training, and by being dex based they should have outstanding accuracy. The biggest thing a swishy-poke fighter like a swashbuckler needs to worry about is a sunder of their nice low HP low hardness agile rapier.
NOPE
Subtle Blade (Ex): At 11th level, while a swashbuckler hasat least 1 panache point, she is immune to disarm, steal,
and sunder combat maneuvers made against a light or
one-handed piercing melee weapon she is wielding.
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But who will run out first? Hmmmm.
Honestly the better question is can the swashbuckler keep beating the barbarian's attack? Come and get me helps a bit in this regard but barbarian's get some rather impressive attack scores all by themselves.
the barb, dex swashbucklers hate sooo many AoOs
More than the terrifying Dexbarian?
I have never seen a dex barb, but woe to the day I do.
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also, two really nice deeds that may be overlooked.
Targeted Strike (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action the
swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to make a single
light or one-handed piercing weapon melee attack that
cripple’s part of a foe’s body. The swashbuckler chooses a
part of the body to target. If the attack succeeds, the target
takes the following effects, depending on the part of the
body targeted. If a creature doesn’t have one of the listed
body locations, that part cannot be targeted. Creatures that
are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.
Items or abilities that protect a creature from a critical hit
also protect a creature from a targeted strike.
• Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the
attack but drops one carried item of the swashbuckler’s
choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items
held in a locked gauntlet aren’t dropped on a hit.
• Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and
is confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.
• Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and
knocked prone. Creatures with four or more legs or that
are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.
• Torso or Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged
normally and is staggered for 1 round.
and
Bleeding Wound (Ex): At 11th level, when the swashbuckler
hits a living creature with a light or one-handed piercing
melee weapon attack, as a free action she can spend 1
panache point to have that attack deal extra bleed damage.
The amount of bleed damage is equal to the swashbuckler’s
Dexterity modifier. Alternatively, the swashbuckler
can spend 2 panache points to deal 1 point of Strength,
Dexterity, or Constitution bleed damage (swashbuckler’s
choice) instead. Creatures immune to sneak attacks are
also immune to these types of bleed damage.
also, swashbucklers get evasion for free, so drop the ring of evasion and grab a +2 ioun stone for con!
So, after seeing some numbers here, the only problem I personally have with the Swashbuckler is the very narrow field of options it offers.
You have a couple of problems with your build. You do not qualify for power attack because it requires a 13 STR and you only have 10. You are also taking your feats out of order. You have weapon specialization before you have weapon focus. You can rearrange the feats to make it level, but doing so will really change the balance of the character at those levels.
The paladins smite evil adds his CHA bonus to hit, and AC as well as bypassing all damage reduction. It can also be used with any weapon including ranged and natural weapons. The damage is also multiplied on a critical hit. While it can be used a limited number of times per day, it lasts for the whole combat. At higher levels you can even grant smite to all your allies within 10 feet of you.
The cavaliers challenge in addition to the damage also has another bonus based on your order. It can be used with any melee weapon, and the damage multiplies on a critical hit. It also last for the entire combat.
Precise strike adds only your level to damage when using a restricted set of weapon and cannot be combined with wielding a weapon two handed. While not every creature is immune to precise strike there are still a decent number of them. The big limitation on precise strike is that it is not multiplied on critical hit.
I would rate the swashbucklers precise shot as about equal to a cavaliers challenge, but a lot weaker than a smite evil.
Just a heads up, from now on, I will always picture Inigo vs. Conan (as portrayed by the dashing Ahnold of course) whenever the Swashbuckler and Barbarian get compared.
What about Zorro versus The Ultimate Warrior?
Yeah, but the Paladin falls. [/sarcasm] You point out "lasts the whole combat" as a bonus to Challenge and smite evil, correct me if I'm wrong, but
The paladins smite evil adds his CHA bonus to hit, and AC as well as bypassing all damage reduction. It can also be used with any weapon including ranged and natural weapons. The damage is also multiplied on a critical hit. While it can be used a limited number of times per day, it lasts for the whole combat. At higher levels you can even grant smite to all your allies within 10 feet of you.The cavaliers challenge in addition to the damage also has another bonus based on your order. It can be used with any melee weapon, and the damage multiplies on a critical hit. It also last for the entire combat.
Precise strike adds only your level to damage when using a restricted set of weapon and cannot be combined with wielding a weapon two handed. While not every creature is immune to precise strike there are still a decent number of them. The big limitation on precise strike is that it is not multiplied on critical hit.
I would rate the swashbucklers precise shot as about equal to a cavaliers challenge, but a lot weaker than a smite evil.
Zorro and The Ultimate Warrior? It just breaks my suspension of disbelief to see Antonio Banderas in combat.
I got a D minus in my DPR Engineering course, so I'm waiting for someone competent to truly answer the o.p.- is the Swashbuckler a top-tier martial class? Or put another way- ow does its DPR compare to a Fighter or Barbarian at comparable levels?
I suppose I'm asking this too. Kind of sucks to be a guy who loves the system and has no idea what he's doing. Would love an answer.
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So, after seeing some numbers here, the only problem I personally have with the Swashbuckler is the very narrow field of options it offers.
I agree somewhat. But to be fair most other classes have a semi-limited option list. Bar slayer.
The way I see it. Swashbuckler is FOR that concept of a lightly armored agile duelist. And imo does that very well. With just a few slips here and there (charmed life REALLY helps with saves though its limited.)
I'm excited to play this class...its basically my 7th seas character in d20 form :)
Are you guys saying we actually have another PF martial of comparable value to the Barbarian?
I think it requires a closer look before that conclusion can be drawn.
So, after seeing some numbers here, the only problem I personally have with the Swashbuckler is the very narrow field of options it offers.I agree somewhat. But to be fair most other classes have a semi-limited option list. Bar slayer.
The way I see it. Swashbuckler is FOR that concept of a lightly armored agile duelist. And imo does that very well. With just a few slips here and there (charmed life REALLY helps with saves though its limited.)
That's true enough, but most classes at least have Archery as a potential option, unless we're counting an arrow itself. Piercing? Check. Light? Check. The Slayer only gets off because its Mommy was a Ranger.
I got a D minus in my DPR Engineering course, so I'm waiting for someone competent to truly answer the o.p.- is the Swashbuckler a top-tier martial class? Or put another way- ow does its DPR compare to a Fighter or Barbarian at comparable levels?
Its damage is comparable to that of a Fighter. Precise Strike is really just compensation for the damage lost by not using a two-handed weapon or TWF. During the playtest it was pointed out that even though it's far more feat intensive, it can be advantageous for the Swashbuckler to use a high-crit off hand weapon. They gain more damage back than they lose from Precise Strike, and they generate Panache a lot faster.
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Are you guys saying we actually have another PF martial of comparable value to the Barbarian?
Just skimming over possibly. I haven't done enough of my own digging to claim that yet. Which is why I posted this for other views.
Also comparable to, but very different from, feels like a good way to describe what it would most likely be.
I got a D minus in my DPR Engineering course, so I'm waiting for someone competent to truly answer the o.p.- is the Swashbuckler a top-tier martial class? Or put another way- ow does its DPR compare to a Fighter or Barbarian at comparable levels?Its damage is comparable to that of a Fighter. Precise Strike is really just compensation for the damage lost by not using a two-handed weapon or TWF. During the playtest it was pointed out that even though it's far more feat intensive, it can be advantageous for the Swashbuckler to use a high-crit off hand weapon. They gain more damage back than they lose for Precise Strike, and they generate Panache a lot faster.
Slashing grace with a pair of kukri's.
Nasty.
At low levels it's only even slightly close if you build strength. A dex build is terrible for the first three levels but catches up later.