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I remember asking this question before, but when I went to check my previous threads to look up answers, it didn't appear on the list for some reason.
Anyway, the Orc Bloodline adds +1 damage per die of a spell. Unlike something like the Wizard version, this does not specify that it only applies to one bolt or hit of a spell.
The half-orc magus favored class bonus, adds 1/2 damage to fire spells. This also does not mention only working once per spell.
Lets say I used the Elemental Spell feat to make a magic missiles spell deal half fire damage. Would the favored class bonus affect each bolt separately? Or only one of the missiles? If so, why?
"Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type."
Tell me again how this prohibits it.
"Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type."
Tell me again how this prohibits it.
I would say no judging by the ruling to sneak attack damage on rays:
Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/19/13
That being said, I'm pretty sure you cannot convert FORCE to FIRE, only one element type to another. I'll have to see if I can find a ruling on that though.
Sneak attack is an entirely different beast, and should, in my opinion, not be used to make a case here.
The part about the rays being simultaneous does however mean that the damage bonus can only apply once to a magic missile spell, since they too are simultaneous.
It does leave me wondering if Arcane Strike and Weapon specialization affect several rays of a Scorching Ray spell though.
Elemental Spell is pretty clear cut. Why call it "the spells normal damage" and not specify the conversion only applies for one element to another.
Sneak attack is an entirely different beast, and should, in my opinion, not be used to make a case here.
The part about the rays being simultaneous does however mean that the damage bonus can only apply once to a magic missile spell, since they too are simultaneous.
It does leave me wondering if Arcane Strike and Weapon specialization affect several rays of a Scorching Ray spell though.
Elemental Spell is pretty clear cut. Why call it "the spells normal damage" and not specify the conversion only applies for one element to
another.
I wasn't saying that the Half-Orc favored class bonus was the same as sneak attack, I was saying that the designers imply bonus damage only applies to multiple ray spells once.
Arcane Strike and Weapon Specialization would similarly only affect one ray.
In terms of the elemental spell feat, I think blackbloodtroll and I were thinking of the Sorcerer Elemental Bloodline, which only allows you to change the ENERGY type of one spell to another.
I probably shouldn't have brought the Orc bloodline into the discussion in the first place, since its based on dice, not attacks.
Having reread the FAQ answer you quoted, I'm left returning to my previous stance that damage bonuses can apply to separate bolts even when they are simultaneous, since the part about simultaneous rays isn't stating a general rule, but rather giving an example for sneak attack specifically.
The whole question about simultaneous rays only comes up (I assume) because if it was allowed, you could get extra mileage out of a regular invisibility spell.
Anything regarding Sneak Attack is usually heavily regulated, and I very much doubt the FAQ quote is referring to anything but Sneak Attack.
The Orc bloodline power would definitely work, but the favored class bonus would not.
"Sorcerer: Add +1/2 point of fire damage to spells that deal fire damage cast by the sorcerer" You are only casting one spell, and thus would only get the bonus once.
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I not really seeing how Elemental Spell changes non-energy damaging spells, into energy damage spells.
Maybe I missed something.
If it does, then that means spells that would normally deal nonlethal damage, like Admonishing Ray, can be made to deal energy damage, like Fire, with this feat.
This is a weird development.
It would still be non-lethal fire damage though :)
As written, it appears that this does work. It certainly doesn't appear to be intended, but I cannot see any words in there that would make it not work.
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For a truely horrific combination, consider a Half-Oc Crossblooded Wildblooded Sorceror mixing Orc/Primal bloodlines. Wielding your chosen elemental damage, you're +2 per die, with a further boost from your Half-Orc levelup bonus.
For example, a simple Burning Hands spell at 10th level would inflict 5d4+10+5, more than doubling it's output, whilst a fireball inflicts 10d6+20+5, a 75% increase in the overall damage.
I would argue that the Half-Orc bonus only applies once per spell though when used with multiple rays, though the other bonuses would apply once per damage die rolled against each target.
In these cases, the FCB does very little. In the fireball example, it's 55 vs 60 points of damage. The impact of the FCB is much greater when used on spells with low damage like Frostburn.
A 10th level magus with an empowered elemental (fire) frostbite would deal an extra of 3/2 d6+22. That's less than the usual shocker magus would do, but it applies to 10 attacks instead of just one.
For a truely horrific combination, consider a Half-Oc Crossblooded Wildblooded Sorceror mixing Orc/Primal bloodlines. Wielding your chosen elemental damage, you're +2 per die, with a further boost from your Half-Orc levelup bonus.
For example, a simple Burning Hands spell at 10th level would inflict 5d4+10+5, more than doubling it's output, whilst a fireball inflicts 10d6+20+5, a 75% increase in the overall damage.
I would argue that the Half-Orc bonus only applies once per spell though when used with multiple rays, though the other bonuses would apply once per damage die rolled against each target.
Except that the FAQ says no to combining the wilblood and crossblooded archetypes. :(
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Except that the FAQ says no to combining the wilblood and crossblooded archetypes. :(For a truely horrific combination, consider a Half-Oc Crossblooded Wildblooded Sorceror mixing Orc/Primal bloodlines. Wielding your chosen elemental damage, you're +2 per die, with a further boost from your Half-Orc levelup bonus.
For example, a simple Burning Hands spell at 10th level would inflict 5d4+10+5, more than doubling it's output, whilst a fireball inflicts 10d6+20+5, a 75% increase in the overall damage.
I would argue that the Half-Orc bonus only applies once per spell though when used with multiple rays, though the other bonuses would apply once per damage die rolled against each target.
It works on Orc/Draconic.
Why?
If it replaces the damage, so no more nonlethal, all fire.
Do it to something like Chord of Shards, which is piercing damage, and now it's all fire. No piercing.
Beats DR now.
I mean, that's how it works, right?
Not quite. If you look at the description of Merciful Spell:
Merciful Spell (Metamagic)
Your damaging spells subdue rather than kill.
Benefit: You can alter spells that inflict damage to inflict nonlethal damage instead. Spells that inflict damage of a particular type (such as fire) inflict nonlethal damage of that same type.
Level Increase: None (a merciful spell does not use up a higher-level spell slot than the spell’s actual level.)
So it's possible to have subdual fire damage, as odd as that might seem. Elsewise, I'd be a much happier camper with elemental spell applied on Frostbite. =(
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However, make note that if you convert a Chord of Shards, or another spell like Acidic Spray into Fire Damage via Elemental Spell, the Draconic Bloodline would not apply, since the Elemental Damage is converted to Fire, rather than the Energy Descriptor. Orc Bloodline will apply, since that focuses on the damage dice, rather than descriptor.