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I'm working on a melee bard build, and I'm not sure how to go about it. I like the Archaeologist archetype, and would very much like to work with it, but I'm not sure how to optimize it beyond taking Arcane Strike and Fate's Favored. So far, I've narrowed down the race options I have to the following:
Half-Elf: Add 1 to the half-elf's total number of bardic performance rounds per day.
Aasimar: Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/2 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.
The reason why I listed the favored class bonuses is because I'm conflicted. On one side, I would have endless AL with an exotic weapon proficiency in greatsword or something, while in the other hand, I could have an increased AL bonus sooner, along with truespeaker and other various racial traits.
What are your guys' thoughts?
My stats are: 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18 (not a point buy. these were rolled.)
I'd say Aasimar with Scion of Humanity. That way you buff the AL or get an extra spell known, depending on your level. Also look at the variant Aasimar heritages: Angel Blooded gives +2 cha and +2 str, which is awesome for you.
For AL rounds take Lingering Performance. You essentially triple the number of rounds you get. On top of that you can take Extra Performance if you really needed it for all the rounds in the world.
As far as weapons, you don't really need to use a designated two-handed weapon as you can two-hand any one-handed weapon and get the 1.5 str and increased Power Attack. You may have a slightly smaller damage dice, but now you can also fight one handed with it should the need ever arise.
As far as stats it depends on how much casting you want to do. If you want to be able to debuff, then pump your Cha. If you just want to cast buffs or spells with no saves, then keep it in the middle range (maybe put that 14 in it, which would then be bumped to 16 with Angel Aasimar).
EDIT: Since you have Fate's Favored be sure to buy a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier. It's practically a steal for a normal character, but with Fate's Favored it's amazing for the cost.
It just doesn't seem worth it when you can have Lingering Performance, which triples your rounds. And then you could take Extra Performance for the equivalent of 18 extra rounds. Sure it's feat investment, but if you're Power Attacking with a weapon in two hands you're looking at a one feat investment and then the chain is pretty much done so you have feats to burn.
Half elf is pretty great imo, for a melee bard both the ancestral arms and the skill focus (probably going into perception or whatever you want for eldritch heritage) work very well. Eldritch heritage has some nice gems for bards btw - I am partial to the draconic or serpentine bloodlines, but feel free to check them all out. I can't deny aasimar + scion of humanity is also quite great, though. Fate's favored already provides a boost to your AL, but, well, the more the better. Ultimately I think both are fine, so you can take your pick.
For melee, my default choice would be to go for a two-hander and power attack, possibly getting some extra goodies i.e. Cornugon smash. This will mean you need to get a good intimidate score, i.e. by taking a trait making it a class skill or multiclassing. You can put a feat or take a level in a martial class for more proficiencies if you are not using the ancestral arms, but if push comes to shove, a longsword or a spear can also give you some decent damage numbers. Longsword and a small, e.g. mithral shield can also work as a more defensive option (and I'd still recommend getting PA).
BTW, if you are going to be in melee do devote some resources to staying alive. With the bard HD and saves toughness and great fortitude are both useful.
catfolk might be worth considering for that tasty bardic knowledge FCB, but half-elf or half-orc work nicely as well.
you couls honestly just grab lingering performance to make your limited rounds less of a juggling act.
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alternatively, you could look at the dawnflower dervish or dervish dancer archetypes, since using the aasimar (preferably azata-blooded) FCB to speed things along you can hit a whopping +8 to attack/damage with inspire courage by level 12(!!!), and the other performances also become that much better.
you have to use the FCB for 10 levels to get it by 12, since your effective bard level would count as follows:
1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 | 9/10.5/12/13.5/15 | 16*/17*
* - the last two levels would be without the FCB since any further would be a waste--the ability doesn't scale past 17th level, saving you two FCB for other performances/hp/skills.
It may depend upon how your GM rules on certain abilities.
Lingering performance for example is usually ruled that it only allows the bonuses to continue and the extra rounds don’t count as a performance. This can effect some of the “end performance” immediate action spells the bard gets. This tends to make the half-elf and half-orc bonus a bit better value.
The GM may also rule that Archaeologist luck is 1 round per level + charisma in line with the developer’s statement that on hindsight that should have been how the ability worked. If so the Half-elf/Half-orc bonus becomes less useful.
The level you’re likely to play to probably has an effect as the lower level you are, the more valuable the Aasimar bonus is.
Humans, Half-elves and Half-orcs also get the extra spells known option which can be very useful.
Of the more unusual races Samsaran magic allows you to add some nice spells to your spell list (although the lack of +cha bonus hurts).
On a final note, I played a Half-elf Archaeologist (albeit with a 2 level dip in Swashbuckler) recently and it was a lot of fun. However, in practice I found I only took about half my preferred class bonuses in extra performance and the others in extra spells.
@insaneogeddon - how is the Vishkanya race great for the archetype?
@everyone talking about lingering performance -
I just ran it through the dm, and he said it will not triple my rounds. Only magical items, feats, and racial bonuses designed to do so will increase the AL duration.
@Renegadesheperd - To answer your question, I want a character that flows from lower levels into higher levels. For example, levels 1-5 are purely martial dominated, and 15-20 are purely magic dominated. I know that I can't make a perfect character that dominates everything, but what I can do is make a balanced character that has sufficient martial power to get him through the first few levels, and then build in power as he goes.
Skills will be engineered around stealth, sense motive, and diplomacy.
Feats and stats will be targeting a str build (I'd prefer melee, but I know the HD of a bard is low and troublesome, so ranged tactics are an option).
In my point of view, spells used for damage or burst are a waste of magic, since, if done right, weapons can do the same thing. Seeing as I gain a massive bonus to attack and damage rolls at lower levels with Arcane Strike and AL alone, most of my other feats will be used to enhance bardic spellcasting.
I'm sorry for the lack of a specific answer. The campaign I'm playing in involves our characters starting in a region, and then eventually serving others so that we might gain our own communities to lead. Suffice to say, I'm trying to make a build supporting the Leadership feat, but I want to make it work with the Archaeologist Archetype. I know that's sub-optimal, but this archetype solves a lot of problems for me that I had with the vanilla bard class, and I'd very like to make it work.
@To everyone else - your tips are invaluable and I appreciate all that you have contributed. Already I'm forming a picture of who I want as my character. At this point, I'm weighing the pros and cons of increased round duration vs. earlier maxing of AL bonuses.
If he axes lingering performance like that, well, that is a pain. It was designed to extend bardic performance and your DM probably noticed the AL rounds are, to put it very mildly, not that many. In that case, anything that gives you more becomes much more useful (i.e. the extra performance feat and half-elf or equivalent racial abilities).
If you are looking for a combat option that will not require too many feats, I think power attack w. a two-hander might be the best option. Considering the bardic hit die, I would actually give reach weapons (even the simple longspear that bards are automatically proficient with) a look, since it will allow you to attack someone from further away.
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Your DM is the final word of what goes on in his game, but Lingering Performance DOES work with AL as written.
Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance.
Benefit: The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.
By RAW, if you have Lingering Performance and you luck end, it will continue for two more rounds afterwards.
By RAW, if you have Lingering Performance and you luck end, it will continue for two more rounds afterwards.Your DM is the final word of what goes on in his game, but Lingering Performance DOES work with AL as written.
Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance.Benefit: The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.
Yep. GM fiating away Lingering Rounds would be enough for me to seriously reconsider how viable the archetype is.
Still you could do it; if you are just two-handing a weapon with Power Attack you still do have feat space that a couple Extra Performance feats could take. Pumping FC for extra spells known or AL level would probably still be better.
@The Shaman - That'll do. Pushing damage on a two-hander isn't too hard, so I can make it work. Thank you.
@chaoseffect and Imbicatus - Thanks for pointing out the wording of the feat. Both the DM and I got the terms wrong on it, so, yes, I can use the feat as such.
@Renegadesheperd - Your tips on the human traits are interesting. The only problem I'd like to get over though, is: is a bonus feat worth a +2 to sense motive and a +2 to a cohort's ability score? Also, I'm not willing to multiclass, but that pitborn tiefling tip gave me an idea for a barbarian build I've been working on. haha, thanks. :)
In the meantime, I no longer need Half-Elf since my charisma is the only thing AL is dependent on.
That leaves:
Human
- Bonus Feat or +2 ability score to cohort
- +2 ability score to ability of my choosing
- +1 skill point per level
- Increased Number of Spells Known
Angel-Blooded
- +2 Str, +2 Cha
- Alter Self/day
- Scion of Humanity
- Truespeaker
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Celestial Resistance or Deathless Spirit
- Increased AL Bonus
I'd still like to go melee, but either race has its functionality in the same role, so, what do you guys think? This character will probably last to level 12, maybe 16, but that's pushing it. My friends always start at level 1, and thus far, haven't progressed passed 13 in any campaign we've played in.
@everyone talking about lingering performance -
I just ran it through the dm, and he said it will not triple my rounds. Only magical items, feats, and racial bonuses designed to do so will increase the AL duration.
....but one of the designers said himself that it worked like that to increase the duration. Relevant link: Russ Taylor on the issue
Admittedly, I can also see why your GM would rule against that. With fate's favored, you kind of keep up with the barbarian, and you can even just take it as a one level dip and still get all those +2's to throw around all day. Imagine that on your average superstitious beast totem barbarian... ("why no, I do not have a vested interest in barbarians and archaeologists. Why do you ask?")
Anyway, I am in favor for half-elf (assuming you can get better news from your GM about Lingering Performance) for weapon proficiency, but for a bow instead. Longswords work perfectly fine for the usual two handed build, but getting a bow could help in a pinch. Even if you are non dedicated, your bonuses could easily provide a lot of help.
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Doesn't get much better than Demonspawn Tiefling +2 bonus to STR and CHA +2 to to Perception and Disable Device and acceess to Claw, Claw, Bite and a nice little +1 Natural armor Bonus from level 1 without even having to spend a feat. You need lingering performance as your first level feat. Farg here will show you the way...
As a bard though...how does that even work? I mean, natural attacks don't bypass DR unless you get handwraps and even then, those things are hard to find.
also, not trying to harsh on anything but,
Maw or Claw: Some tieflings take on the more bestial aspects of their fiendish ancestors. These tieflings exhibit either powerful, toothy maws or dangerous claws. The tiefling can choose a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage or two claws that each deal 1d4 points of damage. These attacks are primary natural attacks. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
How do you get both?
You need an Amulet of Mighty Fists, not handwraps. As for claw claw bite, you could take the claws through Maw or Claw and then used the Adopted trait to pick up an Orc specific one that gives a bite iirc. I don't remember the name of the Orc trait, but for some reason it needed to exist both as an alternate racial ability and as a race trait.
You need an Amulet of Mighty Fists, not handwraps. As for claw claw bite, you could take the claws through Maw or Claw and then used the Adopted trait to pick up an Orc specific one that gives a bite iirc. I don't remember the name of the Orc trait, but for some reason it needed to exist both as an alternate racial ability and as a race trait.
Or a two level dip in ranger with the natural weapon style. Which seems slightly more reasonable than the vast number of creatures that seem to be adopted by half-orcs (tieflings, catfolk, etc).
I doubt the dip would do that much damage if you are optimizing well enough. Fate's favored really does frontload things nicely, no?
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I doubt the dip would do that much damage if you are optimizing well enough. Fate's favored really does frontload things nicely, no?
Two levels of ranger seem rather meeh to me mainly as it delays access to spells (think Heroism) also if you look at Farg's stats he really needs those Archaeologist levels for Wil saves and perception bonuses due to dumping WIS. If the adopted part is too cheesy for your liking pick up a ring of rat fangs at 5k as early as possible. Before that you are still competitive damage wise with only claws, also wield a longspear for that first round of combat.
Arcane Strike helps a lot in overcoming DR as does Power Attack as does an Amulet of Mighty Fists. The build as is is super front loaded and sorta overpowered at early levels considering no full martial is doing similar damage and I have nice skills and spells to boot.
Also I think Barbarian is prolly the better dip compared to Ranger it allows you access to bite or claws at level 2 and opens up rage. But if you go down this route you might just want to go for some crazy multiclass build or just dip one level of Bard and go with barbarian and dragon Style further down the road.
Issue with dipping Barbarian is number of Rage rounds. For a base Barbarian around level 6 or 7 you might as well stop tracking them, but 2 levels? Not that great especially if you're relying on them heavily as your way into nat attacks.
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Issue with dipping Barbarian is number of Rage rounds. For a base Barbarian around level 6 or 7 you might as well stop tracking them, but 2 levels? Not that great especially if you're relying on them heavily as your way into nat attacks.
Assuming a 14 CON you're looking at 8 rounds of rage from a 2 level dip. Add in a feat for 6 extra rounds that adds up to 14 which should suffice for most adventuring days as combats rarely last longer than 3 rounds. Also Farg is built for PFS where you will usually have 3 fights per scenario and they might not even all be during one day.