Hi all,
I'm considering some solutions to speed up combat. I've read several past threads on the forums here and gotten some other good ideas. Here's another one I'd like feedback on.
For all martial type, non-classed opponents, I'm thinking of reducing their hitpoints by 50%, but increasing their hit modifier by 25% and increasing their damage output by 25% of max damage.
Example:
ANKHEG CR 3
hp
Melee bite
My thought is that this will allow the PCs to kill the enemies faster, while increasing the likelihood that the enemies will hit & damage the PCs. To make sure that AOE attacks aren't overpowered, I think I'd have to reduce all AOE damage done to these opponents by 50% (meaning AOE damage is exactly as effective is it was before.)
Thoughts?
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My take is that combat rounds last too long, and combat as a whole last too few rounds. It is often not worth casting spells that give buffs as the combat is often over in 2-3 rounds. Many tactical options are fruitless when "bigger rock best rock" tactics win combat fast.
Things that are complicated/delaying are iterative attacks, and opposed rolls (either stealth vs perception kind of skill checks, or to hit and a saving throw.) It was one of the features of 4e I liked, you make attacks against defences.
Depends on your level, really. At early levels, it can take awhile to kill things, but this is the opposite later on.
For example. In my game, a level 12 monk used his undead bane holy amulet of mighty fists to kill a CR 13 undead knight in a single flurry of blows. It was down right silly. The knight walked up and attacked the monk for one single hit, doing ~20 damage. Monk hit back and did, I don't know, 140 damage?
If anything, combat needs to be lengthened at higher levels. I routinely set monsters to max hp for combat and it rarely matters.
Anyway, back to your proposal. The major problem is that you will hit the squishy even easier and kill them even faster. It will be a major trouble for non-tank melee types, like rogues. Then there is the problem of a wizard getting caught from behind and getting destroyed. It will also make healing less effective overall. Basically it throws the balance of all things out of whack.
Speeding up combat is more easily done through some of the efficiency hacks, like rolling hit and damage together, putting timers on players to act quickly, and ensuring the next player is thinking about their turn before it is actually their turn.
One option for the more generic mooks and guards, minion type monsters that aren't anything special, is to assume they do average damage. So in your example, you don't roll damage for the Ankheg. It has a 1d20+5 to hit and does a flat 11 damage (2d6 averages to 7). That saves you a bit of rolling. You could even assume a static to-hit of 16 (though this dangerous since the players could be invulnerable to the creature if they have too high an AC).
I think making combat more lethal isn't necessarily the best way to make combat faster.
I can't agree more. PF combat is already very swingy. This will only exacerbate that.
The best way I've learned to speed things up is player preparation.
1. Write down what your stuff does so you don't have to flip through books, or at the very least make a page/book reference so you can hop to it quickly.
2. Pay attention. When your turn comes up, you shouldn't suddenly look up and say 'Where'd he come from? When did Bob go down? You cast what on me?'
3. If you don't know what to do, Delay and let someone else take their turn.
4. Give complete information. No: "He gets a Will save." Yes:"He gets a DC 15 will save." This stops a round of questions, as the GM asks you the number..
5. Don't do actions by committee. Bombarding one player with suggestions just results in confusion. During another player's turn, talk as little as possible.
Stuff gets crazy with, bane, and favoured enemy, smite evil etc.
We once had a PC at high levels with a holy, undead bane, axiomatic blade, ended up writing a iPhone app for him, that had a toggle for each of those and a "roll" button which would spit out all his attack rolls and damage.
THIS idea I like.
Combat tends to be very basic because it's over in so few rounds. I agree speeding up time per round is a much better plan than making it even fewer rounds.
When I prepare character sheets, I always include lines that have all the creature's possible boni.
When I play, I keep a sheet of paper where I keep track of attack/damage/AC/saves to avoid problems caused by buffing. My GMs are also generally "gogogo" types, so you have to have your action ready. COmbat is fairly efficient.
To reduce combat time is not a matter of changing the amount of time in game turns that combat requires. Even without your changes combat takes no more than 6 rounds normally for combat at any level. So changing mechanics as you suggest would really only make the bad parts of combat worse.
If you want to make combat faster have players plan out their movements in advance and pre-roll their attack rolls. Assuming that it is not a significant detriment to your play style, tell them the enemies AC and they can go ahead and roll damage and complete their effective turn before it ever arrives.
Combat in Pathfinder is efficient. The people who play it often aren't.
If you REALLY trust your players, have them roll dice for you. "The monster hit you for 3d6+10 damage; roll and apply that to yourself, please."
THIS idea I like.
Not I. I've had a player in the past that wanted to do something like this, but I feel rolling the dice are a critical component of the game.
If you want to make combat faster have players plan out their movements in advance and pre-roll their attack rolls. Assuming that it is not a significant detriment to your play style, tell them the enemies AC and they can go ahead and roll damage and complete their effective turn before it ever arrives.
That would seem to create a lot of confusion. Players would be rolling dice and talking over one another when it wasn't their turn.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Sounds like the key should be to reduce the amount of time it takes per round, not necessarily the number of combat rounds. That sounds like good advice.
I don't want to break out a timer on the players, but I am going to have them write in large print their attack modifier and damage roll for their main weapons. This way there should be minimal modifications that require math. Also going to require that players understand their spells. If they have to look up the spell, then their turn will count as a "delay" action until they're ready.
You want to speed up combat or speed up damage output? There's e wast difference between the two.
To speed up combat apply a time limit on combat rounds. 2-3 minutes is good, enforce players to roll damage at the same they roll to hit, with the damage dice already roiled you cut the time taken for each attack by as much as 30%.
The time limit is also realistic, the character is making his decisions in 6 seconds, so why is it that he seems to have had a 3-4 person tactics chat before every action he takes? Don't enforce the time limit once the player is rolling his dice, the time limit is to limit the decision process, not the math calculation.
I promise you, don't increase damage output (or input?) For your mooks. You'll regret it when your characters get their methods to end combats in 2 rounds figured out.
It is very rarely a player's own spells which confuse them ... okay I'm lying but it is less often a player's own spells which confuse them but if you have 4 different buffs up from 3 different characters which may or may not have the same typed bonuses or stack in different ways it can get confusing even with a fairly simple starting point.
The group right now is only level 5, and they rarely buff. The cleric of the party never remembers how many d6's he rolls for channel energy. Then he always gets confused on if he adds his level to the roll or not. Basically every session he asks that question or looks it up. If he uses his domain power, he never remembers if it is a touch attack or not, or what he adds to it, or how much damage it does.
When he casts a spell, he grabs the book, reads the entire spell, and then casts it. He has cast the same spell at least four times through the various sessions (and quite effectively I might add), but still is not comfortable with it to know the exact range, duration, etc.
The rogue of the group attacks from range, he has the option of attacking 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times, but often confuses the modifiers. He also occasionally attacks in melee, and then is completely confused as to the changes.
I've asked characters for their flat-footed or touch armor classes, and they always seem unsure, even though it should be written right on their character sheet. They always seem worried that maybe they calculated it wrong.
I think at the beginning of next session, we're going to spend the first 30 minutes or so making sure that everyone has their stuff together. I usually just let the players keep track of their own memorized spells, which in theory should mean they know what those spells do, but since they seem to be confused, I may ask for a list of their memorized spells at the beginning of each day.
If attack bonuses and damage bonuses are making your players take a while then ask them to summarise it all when it is not their turn. That way next round they won't have to recalculate.
Make the players create attack charts for all their different attack modes. For newbs make it your personal goal to make sure the player has such a chart.
If the modifiers for everything is setup on the character sheets, then it may just be a problem of being poor at math. You may have to give one of them a calculator.
Between having everything on the character sheet correct and a calculator that should solve it. If not come back and let us know. If I missed something you covered let me know that also.
The group right now is only level 5, and they rarely buff. The cleric of the party never remembers how many d6's he rolls for channel energy. Then he always gets confused on if he adds his level to the roll or not. Basically every session he asks that question or looks it up. If he uses his domain power, he never remembers if it is a touch attack or not, or what he adds to it, or how much damage it does.When he casts a spell, he grabs the book, reads the entire spell, and then casts it. He has cast the same spell at least four times through the various sessions (and quite effectively I might add), but still is not comfortable with it to know the exact range, duration, etc.
For the spells you might want to look into cards, like the ones that this tool can make: Perram's Spellbook
I use them all the time for my casters, it's way faster to grab a card and check how the spell works than to have to search through the book every time. I usually simply print out the cards and let them stay on the A4 page, I don't cut them out. That gives a couple of pages per spell level for casters like clerics, since they are in alphabetic order it's very easy and fast to find a spell you want. I print them out one spell level at a time, so if I need a certain level 2 spell then a grab the pages with level 2 spell cards. This works even better for spontaneous casters as they only know a limited amount of spells.Unfortunately others in my group don't use it and use the book instead, the difference in time they need to look something up can be huge, but the rest of the group often doesn't seem to mind..
As for his channel energy, maybe creating a custom card for it would help, that spell card generator tool has an option for it. While it isn't really a spell it would work fine and then the cleric would never need the book(s) for channel and spells again.
If you have Hero Labs the tactical console can keep track of nearly everything and automatically adjust the stats for you. It also gives you all the information on the characters, and monsters so you do not have to ask the player, or look it up. I have a copy of every player character loaded into a portfolio and for this reason. A couple of mouse clicks and I have the current stats of any character so if they don’t know what their ability does I just look on their character and tell them.
The group right now is only level 5, and they rarely buff. The cleric of the party never remembers how many d6's he rolls for channel energy. Then he always gets confused on if he adds his level to the roll or not. Basically every session he asks that question or looks it up. If he uses his domain power, he never remembers if it is a touch attack or not, or what he adds to it, or how much damage it does.
When he casts a spell, he grabs the book, reads the entire spell, and then casts it. He has cast the same spell at least four times through the various sessions (and quite effectively I might add), but still is not comfortable with it to know the exact range, duration, etc.
The rogue of the group attacks from range, he has the option of attacking 1 time, 2 times, or 3 times, but often confuses the modifiers. He also occasionally attacks in melee, and then is completely confused as to the changes.
I've asked characters for their flat-footed or touch armor classes, and they always seem unsure, even though it should be written right on their character sheet. They always seem worried that maybe they calculated it wrong.
speeding up the combat ruleswise wont help you to solve the issue. your players have to make their homework or it will just get worse and worse as they level up and get more options. if they dont do it you can
a) invest a GREAT deal of your own time teaching them (not a good option, will severely reduce your own motivation)b) kick the players that dont make their homework if they dont improve (another bad option)
c) play another system. 4th edition is way easier to understand (the least bad option)
d) just live with it
My suggestion:
Find a game of 13th Age to join. Try it out, see what you like and steal from that.
In one campaign I played, our sessions were from 8-11pm. If it was a combat centric session, we could fit in 3-4 fairly easy within those 3 hours. Combats typically lasted 3-5 rounds.
IMO the biggest time sink in 3.X and 4E is the tactical grid.
IMO the biggest time sink in 3.X and 4E is the tactical grid.
Agree 110%. I would like to go grid-less, but most of my players are really into the grid, so compromise is the name of the game.
I have a faster way to kill your party :
R1 “Rocks fall, everyone dies”. ;-)
Speeding up combat pretty easy:
Have one of the players run Init, he announces who is up and who is next. You must be ready when you’re up, if you’re not, you delay until you are.
Seriously limit cohorts, pets, summoned creatures, etc- on both sides.
No texting, playing games on your laptop, etc, etc while in combat
Spellcasters must have that spell up when casting a spell. 3x5 cards work great. If martials are trying a special maneuver, they also have to have the book open to that page.
Some other player tracks party buff and puts them on a whiteboard or something so all can see.
OP, I can see in your group, the issue is that many of your players don’t know the rules or their characters.